Sorting by rim thickness, is Pbike257's gauge it worth it?

[justinp61]

I just checked the rim thickness on 300 rounds of one lot of SK Std. +. My Mitutoyo digital caliper has a resolution of .0005". There were three groups.

40.33% @ .0366-.0375"
54.66% @ .0376-.0385"
6% @ .0386-.0395"

I have three other lots that I can check. The lot I checked tonight shoots good in my 52s, I have another lot that shoots great in them and one that is so so. It'll be interesting to see what these two measure. One lot hasn't been shot yet.

I'll check 300 of each lot, if they fall into the same range as the lot tested tonight I see no need to do anymore testing for rim thickness. Of course I will shoot the three tested lots in my 52's and my 1712 to see how the shake out.

 

[Outrider27]

While on the subject of rim thickness, how are you guys sorting yours? by the .001" or by .0005"?

Thanks, Justin

I generally group them into barrel fowlers - 0.035" and under, and, partially dependent on the number in each range, go up in 1 and a half thousandths thickness groups from there from there, like 0.035+ to 0.0365", 0.0365+ to 0.038", 0.038+ to 0.395", and anything over that in the thickest lot. With all the things that can effect the ammunition's contribution to accuracy, this will improve accuracy with cheap bulk ammo. The quality control of other factors in higher priced match grade ammo has, in my experience, made rim thickness testing unnecessary, as it showed no real improvement in accuracy with those ammos, at least within my ability to push their limits in my rifles. My rim thickness gage, while a different make than the Pbike257 gage, is a snap type gauge also, using a high end Mitutoyo dial indicator. That type of gage is both accurate and fast - great for sorting ammo while you sit in front of the TV.

 

[USMCDOC]

I generally group them into barrel fowlers - 0.035" and under, and, partially dependent on the number in each range, go up in 1 and a half thousandths thickness groups from there from there, like 0.035+ to 0.0365", 0.0365+ to 0.038", 0.038+ to 0.395", and anything over that in the thickest lot. With all the things that can effect the ammunition's contribution to accuracy, this will improve accuracy with cheap bulk ammo. The quality control of other factors in higher priced match grade ammo has, in my experience, made rim thickness testing unnecessary, as it showed no real improvement in accuracy with those ammos, at least within my ability to push their limits in my rifles. My rim thickness gage, while a different make than the Pbike257 gage, is a snap type gauge also, using a high end Mitutoyo dial indicator. That type of gage is both accurate and fast - great for sorting ammo while you sit in front of the TV.

Is it a Bald Eagle?

 

[Mark Self]

I have been weight, rim and ogiv sorting for about year....One thing I have found is the ogiv sorting was the only thing to make difference..

 

[justinp61]

Mark, what are you using for measuring the ogive?

Interesting read.
http://www.nielsonbrothersarms.com/22 Concentricity.htm

 

[Uthink Uknow]

If the guy with the bucks and no time to rim sort goes to a match and shoots 200 rounds of $22.00 ammo, he spends $88.00 for ammo. If he gets beat by the guy who shoots 200 round of $8.00 rim sorted ammo and spent $32.00, should you ask him if he rim sorts? I think not. And I didn’t.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I have been weight, rim and ogiv sorting for about year....One thing I have found is the ogiv sorting was the only thing to make difference..

I have to agree engraving depth is very important. I have been doing ogive sorting for 3 maybe 4 years now. once you find a length a barrel likes it is much easier to determine which lots will shoot good just by the ogive length.
so if you think about, how many times have you heard find ammo that the rifle likes, well maybe it was the ogive length that made the difference.

Lee

 

[dellet]

I sorted through enough Eley and RWS to where for my purposes, I do not think it would consistently shrink groups sizes, if you discount the occasional flyer. Compared to the CCI standard, they were all extremely consistent.

If I were just culling for flyers, I think the longest run of CCI's might have been 10 and it seem like there would have been a couple runs of that many culls.

Grouping the culls has turned them from unexplained flyers into a sight adjustment.

 

[justinp61]

I've been in the basement listening to some Southern rock and sorting two more lots of SK Std. +. If I have time I may open the new case and measure 300 of them. While I'm at it I may do 300 SK Rifle Match.

300 of each lot were measured.

The best shooting lot #541. The majority measured .0375-.0380", had they been grouped that way I'd say 80% would have fallen into that group. If I continue sorting they will be grouped that way.
.003% @ .0356-.0365"
35.33% @ .0366-.0375"
64.33% @ .0376-.0385"
.003% @ .0386-.0395"

The good lot from above #673
40.33% @ .0366-.0375"
54.66% @ .0376-.0385"
6% @ .0386-.0395"

The poor lot #611. The majority measured .0385-.0390"
31.33% @ .0366-.0375"
65.33% @ .0376-.0385"
19.66% @ .0386-.0395"
.003% @ .0396-.0405"

 

[USMCDOC]

I have been weight, rim and ogiv sorting for about year....One thing I have found is the ogiv sorting was the only thing to make difference..

How do you like those Fowler gauges..

 

[Outrider27]

Is it a Bald Eagle?

Yes, it is. Handy device.

 

[Mark Self]

How do you like those Fowler gauges..

They are not bad, they stay consistent. Cheapest of the digital I would use.

 

[Mark Self]

Mark, what are you using for measuring the ogive?

Interesting read.
http://www.nielsonbrothersarms.com/22 Concentricity.htm

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...hickness-tool-and-base-to-ogive-length-gauge/

 

[USMCDOC]

They are not bad, they stay consistent. Cheapest of the digital I would use.

i was looking at this one pretty hard

https://www.igagingstore.com/Depth-Gauge-Digital-Electronic-Indicator-0-22-Me-p/205870.htm

 

[dellet]

Those that are sorting rim to Ogive, What are you using?

And concerning this project would it be able to measure a short?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Those that are sorting rim to Ogive, What are you using?

And concerning this project would it be able to measure a short?

As noted by Mark's post, I am also using the G3 with a Miyutoyo digital indicator that reads in 0.0000 I found it much easier to read and match lengths.
as for measuring .22 short shouldn't be a problem.
example as to where measurement is taken

Lee

 

[1911nut]

I’ve been sorting Center-X rim to ogive with the Neco tool and
I’ve shot smaller groups with sorted ammo vs unsorted.

I haven’t shot enough to determine if my rifle prefers one length over others. I figured the improvement was due to fewer flyers by culling out the long and short rounds. Late last season I got my gun setup with a new trigger and was shooting enough I was gettin better at the trigger pullin and rest setup. I have a new tuner to try and 1/2 case of ammo to sort but I’m self isolating.. ... so it’ll be awhile before I get back to it.

not sure if this tool would work with shorts, call Neco they might could supply the proper insert.

 

[dellet]

I do have a call out and waiting for an answer. It looks like either a longer stem on the indicator, or even a spacer could be added without loss of accuracy.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I do have a call out and waiting for an answer. It looks like either a longer stem on the indicator, or even a spacer could be added without loss of accuracy.

Dellet,

I looked at gauge closer and what would need to be done to sort .22 short is have the base insert made shorter

Lee

 

[dellet]

Dellet,

I looked at gauge closer and what would need to be done to sort .22 short is have the base insert made shorter

Lee

That give a better idea of how it works, thanks.

Had a call back from Neco. They have none in stock, not sure if they will get anymore. They say they are not able to contact the maker. Keep getting all "circuits busy" message trying to call the number for Gerry Gereg in the Accurate shooter bulletin from 2013. Sent a message to the email listed also, will see what happens.

Not looking good for the home team.