Sorting Brass

[Nowind0]

Just received some new Winchester Brass.

The question is, do you weight sort it before or after you:

1. Uniform the primer pockets
2. Debur the flash hole
3. Trim/chamfer

Or does it make a hill of beans difference. Thanks

 

[savagedasher]

The three process you talk about is what you do before you shoot .
I found weight sorting doesn't mean much .
I want to find the internal volume.
If the internal volume is different from one case to the other your bullet speed and pressures will be different. Doesn't show as much at short yardage . 600 plus is where it shows on target. Short yardage is will show on the croney but not on target. Great Question I hope my answer helps. Larry

 

[Nowind0]

Larry,
So the theory is that if the external dimensions are the same from case to case, the weight of the case will be an indicator of the internal volume. I find that anything you can do to gain confidence in your load, will help your scores.
Let's hope someone has an opinion and the thought process behind it.

 

[savagedasher]

Larry,
So the theory is that if the external dimensions are the same from case to case, the weight of the case will be an indicator of the internal volume. I find that anything you can do to gain confidence in your load, will help your scores.
Let's hope someone has an opinion and the thought process behind it.

NO . Even with internal and external being the same cases weight very from the cutting the extractor grove. they very in depth and width..
I have cases that weigh the same total weight and have over a grain difference in internal volume.
Larry

 

[dedogs]

I don't trim anything until it's been fired in the intended chamber twice. I do check to make sure nothing is too long for the intended chamber-- even with Lapua-- you might be surprised. dedogs

 

[savagedasher]

I don't trim anything until it's been fired in the intended chamber twice. I do check to make sure nothing is too long for the intended chamber-- even with Lapua-- you might be surprised. dedogs

Very good advice Larry

 

[gilmillan1]

I have gone this road before. Not worth doing the internal volume deal. Just weight sort them before doing any work on them. I sort them within 1/2 grain. Some people sort them within 1 grain.

 

[savagedasher]

I have gone this road before. Not worth doing the internal volume deal. Just weight sort them before doing any work on them. I sort them within 1/2 grain. Some people sort them within 1 grain.

If your happy that is all that matters. But it took me years to get my ES 5 and under. Larry

 

[gilmillan1]

I am usually able to keep my es at around 5 fps. Neck tension and poder charges are key to me. To get that kind of spread i have to really work my brass and weight my charges to the kernel.

 

[dedogs]

Gilmilan1, What is the point of weighing your brass before fireforming and then trimming them?

 

[savagedasher]

I am usually able to keep my es at around 5 fps. Neck tension and poder charges are key to me. To get that kind of spread i have to really work my brass and weight my charges to the kernel.

That's good All mine I use a charge master to load.
I have a few cases that weigh a full gr different but have the same volume inside.
I always said their is more then one way to skin a cat. Larry

 

[Dakota_Mike]

I usually buy brass in bulk 300-500 or more and sort into boxes of 50 by overall weight before doing anything to it. Overall I am pretty happy with the results but there are always occasions where a shot goes high or low and you always wonder why.

What have you found to be the best way to sort for internal volume?

 

[savagedasher]

I usually buy brass in bulk 300-500 or more and sort into boxes of 50 by overall weight before doing anything to it. Overall I am pretty happy with the results but there are always occasions where a shot goes high or low and you always wonder why.

What have you found to be the best way to sort for internal volume?

at the gun range will get back when done

 

[Bronsin]

I take fireformed brass with the primer still in them, and fill them with an old ball powder to find internal volume. My .223 cases showed that a change of .3grs case weight was the same as a .1gr change in internal volume. Obviously different cases and cartridges will be different, but that's the process I use.

 

[gilmillan1]

Gilmilan1, What is the point of weighing your brass before fireforming and then trimming them?

Consistency! I weight my brass, sort it, and then trim it. Trim length is really not a real issue until it reaches its maximum length in the chamber. However, for extreme accuracy, everything needs to be as consistent as possible every time. Every piece of brass, powder charge, bullet, neck tension, etc. Consistency is the key to accuracy!

 

[gilmillan1]

I am usually able to keep my es at around 5 fps. Neck tension and poder charges are key to me. To get that kind of spread i have to really work my brass and weight my charges to the kernel.

That's good All mine I use a charge master to load.
I have a few cases that weigh a full gr different but have the same volume inside.
I always said their is more then one way to skin a cat. Larry

Larry,

you are absolutely right! Many ways to skin a cat. The key is to find something that truly works for you, and repeat it. I don't profess that my methods are the best out there. However, i do profess that they work for me. Some people will definitely sort brass by internal volume and some will just weight their brass. Everyone will have their different reasons as to why they do their process the way they do it.

My recommendation to OP is to do both tests of brass sorting, and stick with the one that works for you.

 

[dedogs]

gilmillan1, I get your point about consistency but aren't you changing the weight significantly on some of the brass when you trim?

 

[nmkid]

Gilmilan1, What is the point of weighing your brass before fireforming and then trimming them?

Consistency! I weight my brass, sort it, and then trim it. Trim length is really not a real issue until it reaches its maximum length in the chamber. However, for extreme accuracy, everything needs to be as consistent as possible every time. Every piece of brass, powder charge, bullet, neck tension, etc. Consistency is the key to accuracy!

I agree on the, "consistency". Unless you are lucky, it is a very frustrating point. But, so satisfying when things start falling into place. I have loaded since 1970 and never really cared about extreme accuracy. I have now started doing that...And it's a whole new ball game!!

 

[savagedasher]

gilmillan1, I get your point about consistency but aren't you changing the weight significantly on some of the brass when you trim?

Sorting Brass by weight Any machining or trimming that is done to the brass has big effect on the weight.
Checking with internal Volume Any trim length difference has the same results. Checking with powder you can get a big difference also. I trim my cases to within .001 and filled with powder wiped the excess off flat with the top. marked the weight on each. then did the same process using a drop tube . They held almost a gr more.
Sounder like a great way of doing but the result wasn't good enough.
H20 volume was the next test with the same cases. The result got better but still had large numbers of difference. the bubble and any excess that run down the case was the problem. Both the powder and H20 showed the total weigh wasn't the answer.
Powder was ok and easy but the result wasn't what I was looking to get.
H20 was messy but very dependent on the bubble and excess being wiped dry.
I made me a tool that I could fill the case to the neck .The tool has a stopped at the shoulder like we use for checking head space. The tool seals and pushes the water out a very small tube with no leakage on the case..
The result repeat to .01 to .00 ever time. I take cases that has ben shot 2 times put a spent primer in bottom side up. Not sized or trim and get the same answer every time. Checking off the shoulder .
I hope to have them on the market soon. Production coast will be a factor on the selling price.
I don't check the cases for total volume or usable case capacity to be used in QL. Larry

 

[seymour fish]

To the OP, Weighing cases and culling to some standard, then trimming off a variable amount of weight, begs for re-weighing. Weight and case internal volume may or may not correlate. Do you want to 'believe', or to Know ? Weighing powder to the kernel when case volumes aren't matched can be proven useless by plugging various ranges of case volumes into quickload. The amount of time required to messure the internal volumes of sufficient cases to produce a suitable matched set for your discipline is negligible compared to all the other manipulations involved, productive or otherwise. Some lots of brass may exibit varying wall thickness not up to one's standards, yet identical volumes, and shoot well. Matching case volumes requires no new tool or whizbang gadget, no guru. Ask yourself, if you were building a race motor, would you CC the combustion chambers ? For those needing to spend some cash, there will soon be a kit including spent primers and special majic 'volume water". Seymour