Soot on case rims

[southern_idaho]

I have two Savage Rifles chambered in .260 Remington. One has a sporter weight 20" barrel. One is their "long range hunter" with a medium weight 26" barrel.

Using Sierra 85 gr. Hollow Points, I have developed a load that shoots quite nicely in either rifle. I have always full-length resized until just recently. I bought a set of Redding Type S full length neck size dies and that is what I loaded these rounds with. Used the .290" neck bushing.

A once fired RP case reloaded with a 140 gr. Amax measures .292".

The cases for this batch were Nosler .243 neck up to the .260 Remington. They had all been fired two or even three times. I did outside neck turn the cases with a K&M neck turner. I don't have accurate "thickness gauges" to measure the neck wall thickness, so I just adjusted the neck turner so it would take a skim cut on the necks and turned them all. Did this before sizing just in case you wonder.

So here's the deal, all of these loads are coming out of the chambers of both rifles with a lot of carbon or soot around the rim and base of the case. Primers are NOT being pierced.

Powder is CFE 223.

This load never did this before - when I was sizing with good ole' RCBS full length dies. I realize I introduced a couple of variables by neck turning and using the Redding Type S dies at the same time - but I am quite puzzled.

In my mind the only reason for this to happen is if the Redding die is sizing the body quite a bit smaller than the RCBS did? The strange thing is, I don't think the necks are any dirtier than normal. Look like a normal neck after firing.

Any thoughts?

By the way, accuracy is still very good with these loads, shot 1/2" 3-shot groups in both rifles. Just what I was used to.

 

[areaone]

Had excessive soot using 85 gr Bergers in a 6.5x47L, remedy: faster burning powder. Went to Benchmark and accuracy was superb, great velocity and no soot. My problem was solved. 3560 fps with the 85 gr,

 

[finnaddict]

Yup. Faster powder and revert back to your trusted method. Your cases are being sized smaller than what you need them to be.

 

[southern_idaho]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. That's the last of the CFE223 that I had, so the switch is going to be easy.

 

[Dave T]

I had the same problem with one of my guns, the problem was I wasn't getting a good seal in the neck when fired, which is what you are experiencing, I tried everything, only fix was annealing, once the hardness was taken out of the neck and shoulder area I got a good seal and the problem went away.
Dave T

 

[Terry]

Hard Brass will not seal well.
Try annealing the brass.

 

[southern_idaho]

update: Soot on case rims

This morning I went to the range and fired the last 9 of the reloads that were producing the "sooty cases". Shot 3 three-shot groups at 100 yards. The groups measured, in the order shot: 1/4", 3/8", 3/4" center to center. The 1/4" group is my best ever with a .260 - and ties my best "all time ever".

I am not an accomplished bench-rest shooter, in case you couldn't tell.

These were actually pretty light loads for an 85 gr. HP, I chrono'd them at 2950. Kind of loafing along. But I loved the accuracy.

But on to new powder

 

[finnaddict]

If you're getting groups like that then I wouldn't change anything nor worry about the soot as long as it's not blowing back into your face.

 

[4xforfun]

First, what is a "Redding Type S full length neck size dies "?

Second, if you are going to neck turn, I strongly recomend you get the proper measuring tools. Buy good tools and take care of them and they will last forever.

Third...You say smoke on the "rim and base of the case". Are we talking about soot sround the neck area and sholder, or soot all the way down around the RIM..the part where the extractor hooks the case to extract it from the chamber?"

Just trying to get a clear picture of your problem.

Tod

 

[hogpatrol]

"First, what is a "Redding Type S full length neck size dies "?"

Die that sizes the entire case body and has the capability to use different size bushings on the neck.

 

[CatShooter]

"First, what is a "Redding Type S full length neck size dies "?"

Die that sizes the entire case body and has the capability to use different size bushings on the neck.

What you describe is a Full Length Bushing "S" die, NOT a neck die. There is a difference.

 

[hogpatrol]

"First, what is a "Redding Type S full length neck size dies "?"

Die that sizes the entire case body and has the capability to use different size bushings on the neck.

What you describe is a Full Length Bushing "S" die, NOT a neck die. There is a difference.

Different? Not according to Redding. Probably just a matter of semantics.

From Redding Website:

Type S – Full Bushing Die
Full length resizing while maintaining exact control of the case neck is often desirable in one operation. The new Type S - Full Length Resizing/Bushing Die accomplishes this task with the precision you would expect from Redding.

Uses the same interchangeable bushings (.001" increments) as those used in our bushing style neck sizing dies.
The adjustable decapping rod allows you to adjust the bushing position, sizing only part of the neck length when desire d .
Concentricity is enhanced by the ability of the bushing to self-center on the neck of the cartridge case.
All Type S (except 17 and 20 Cal.) dies are supplied with both the standard size button and a decapping pin retainer for the advantages and versatility described under our Type S - Bushing Style Neck Sizing Dies.

Note: By removing the bushing and all internal parts, the Type-S full bushing die may also be used as a body die.

All dies are supplied without bushings.

 

[CatShooter]

There is a full length bushing die (which sizes the whole body, AND the neck), and there is a neck sizing bushing die, which only sizes the neck - there is no such ting as a full length neck sizing die.

Neck sizing dies, only size the neck - full length sizing dies, size the whole case - you cannot only size the neck, and size the whole case at the same time.

It is not semantics - someone is blending two different products.

Words have meanings.