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SOMETHING I DON'T UNDERSTAND

I have a factory Remington 700, 22-250 with a 1/14 twist. I am presently shooting Berger 52gr bullets. SAMMI specs say the mouth of the case should be .253.

After firing my cases, the neck winds up being should expand. In my case, a loaded round measures .251. After it is fired the case mouth is mostly .251 and .252 but some are as big as .255.

I recently turned 20 necks to .013. This was before I measured the cases today and found what I believe a screwed up bunch of numbers. The measurements do not change between the turned necks and the unturned cases.

In order to get the bullets anywhere near the lands, they are seated about 1/8 inch in the case.

I don't understand what is going on. Does anyone have an explanation?
 
What is the history of these cases?

For example, started from virgin brass, once fired, once fired and annealed, etc.

Sometimes the history of the brass leaves it in various states of work hardening and that tends to create differences after being fired.

As far as neck diameter or seating depth, nothing we can say since it all depends on how they made that chamber.

The real question is.... how does it shoot?!?
 
The cases are Lapua and have been fired three times.

Asfar as how it shoots, that's another crazy issue. Some days it can't be beat, shootin 1/2 MOA or less. Other times some groups are as much as 1.5 inches. I never get the barrel overheated and do not shoot more than 6 cartridges before letting it cool with a fan blowing on it.
 
IMO you just stuffed 20 cases.
Until you know the absolute chamber neck measurement don't go any further.

Our first rifle reloading was with a Lee Target loader, a model somewhat more advanced than the normal Lee Whack a Mole kit in that it had a inside neck reamer which in effect achieved the same thing as neck turning and once reamed we could never get the thing to group well in the sporting rifle with a standard SAMMI chamber and once fired almost anything would shoot better with just FL sizing. Lesson was a hard learn and a few 100 308 LC cases went into the brass bin. In hindsight I believe the Lee target loader was optimized for Palma brass and tight neck chambers.

Based on info often written here skimming the necks to true them would be as far as I would venture based on the lesson learnt decades ago except now we use an LCD for most everything.
Good luck on working this one out and it's my guess that others with far more experience will put you on the right track.
 
I would suggest that the cases need proper annealing as you getting different neck tensions. Some cases are "letting go" correctly and producing decent groups, others causing the groups to open up randomly according to which cases you pick up on the day.

A .251/252 loaded round is fine - the difference in fired cases is being caused by the varying hardness of the brass. I would however measure the actual diameter of the neck by casting the chamber or using a gauge pin. I look for a max of 3-4 thou neck expansion on my 308 and 2-2.5 on my BR and 223.

If you don't have access to a decent annealing machine, you could try the brass service advertised on the site, or in the first instance try some different cases or even factory ammo. (wash my mouth out)

IMO the free bore/throat is too long, but that is a common issue with factory barrels and what is perceived as a high pressure cartridge. I started in FTR with a Remington and it took a lot of tuning to get a decent group. I was 110 thou over magazine length OAL to get to a 16 thou jump to the lands. I now use a Barnard and a decent barrel with a much shorter throat, as I only shoot 155g, but if it's shooting OK, small neck contact is fine.

Do let us know if you solve the issues.
 
Cases were annealed. I usually anneal after every third firing. Turning the necks to .013 does not entirely cut into most of the cases.

Before turning the necks all brass was cleaned in a wet tumbler, with stainless steel, full length sized and then expanded. I am anal when it comes to weighing powder. Using an RCBS 1500 scale and check ever fifth load with a accurized Ohaus balance beam. Bullets seated using a Wilson micrometer die.

Most of my rifles are custom built. I bought this on a whim looking for something different to try. As I said before, Some days it shoots good groups and others it does not.

I only shoot at the bench, using a Seb front rest and Seb rear bag. On this rifle I changed the stock to a MagPul Hunter and added a 3in plate to the front also installed a Jewel trigger set at 2oz. Have been thinking of a new barrel 1/8 twist to shoot heavier bullets. Then again I may change calibers altogether. Meantime, I will set it aside for a few weeks and give myself time to decide the next step. I hate giving up on anything.

Thanks for your insightful input.
 
The maximum case mouth for a loaded round per SAAMI is .254 to fit minimum chamber of .255”.

In my opinion you should consider seating your bullets deeper. Your inconsistent expansion may be an indication the the bullet is releasing early before pressure builds. Try seating to Berger’s recommended COL.
 
Cases were annealed. I usually anneal after every third firing. Turning the necks to .013 does not entirely cut into most of the cases.

Before turning the necks all brass was cleaned in a wet tumbler, with stainless steel, full length sized and then expanded. I am anal when it comes to weighing powder. Using an RCBS 1500 scale and check ever fifth load with a accurized Ohaus balance beam. Bullets seated using a Wilson micrometer die.

Most of my rifles are custom built. I bought this on a whim looking for something different to try. As I said before, Some days it shoots good groups and others it does not.

I only shoot at the bench, using a Seb front rest and Seb rear bag. On this rifle I changed the stock to a MagPul Hunter and added a 3in plate to the front also installed a Jewel trigger set at 2oz. Have been thinking of a new barrel 1/8 twist to shoot heavier bullets. Then again I may change calibers altogether. Meantime, I will set it aside for a few weeks and give myself time to decide the next step. I hate giving up on anything.

Thanks for your insightful input.
Are all the brass from the same lot? How do you anneal the cases? Are They all the same neck wall thickness? The jump to the lands is normal for most factory rifles. A custom barrel and chamber would most likely fix all your issues. Matt
 
Cases were annealed. I usually anneal after every third firing. Turning the necks to .013 does not entirely cut into most of the cases.

Before turning the necks all brass was cleaned in a wet tumbler, with stainless steel, full length sized and then expanded. I am anal when it comes to weighing powder. Using an RCBS 1500 scale and check ever fifth load with a accurized Ohaus balance beam. Bullets seated using a Wilson micrometer die.

Most of my rifles are custom built. I bought this on a whim looking for something different to try. As I said before, Some days it shoots good groups and others it does not.

I only shoot at the bench, using a Seb front rest and Seb rear bag. On this rifle I changed the stock to a MagPul Hunter and added a 3in plate to the front also installed a Jewel trigger set at 2oz. Have been thinking of a new barrel 1/8 twist to shoot heavier bullets. Then again I may change calibers altogether. Meantime, I will set it aside for a few weeks and give myself time to decide the next step. I hate giving up on anything.

Thanks for your insightful input.
Ditch the wet tumbling with SS pins. You are removing the carbon from the inside of the neck and likely rolling a burr edge on some cases.
 
Ditch the wet tumbling with SS pins. You are removing the carbon from the inside of the neck and likely rolling a burr edge on some cases.
I wet tumble a 6BR and easily get groups under 0.500". Your rifle is a factory 22-250. I would consider it a hunting rifle and not something to spend a lot of time on trying to shoot small groups. Get a Kreiger barrel in 6BRX and have a lot more fun.
 
Ditch the wet tumbling with SS pins. You are removing the carbon from the inside of the neck and likely rolling a burr edge on some cases.
Nick, I truly feel that if you correctly annealing now and still seeing this issue, you need to try to shoot the brass 2-3 more times without wet tumbling to RE-establish the carbon in the neck.
 
I haven't seen a factory m700 22-250 with a chamber neck diameter smaller than 0.254. My Manson 22-250 reamer is 0.255 . Seating depth always seems sensitive for 22-250's, I like a micro adjustable seating die so I can seat measure cbto and adjust for same final cbto for every round. I don't see a lot of variation in fired neck diameter, I anneal but not each firing.
 
My 22-250s you can hardly push a new bullet into a fired piece of brass. It stays tightish. Thats normal. 52s in the 14 twist is correct. Wicked combo. Reloader 15...

Forget about the lands. Its a factory run. Play with it and find what it likes. Use the exact same charge and only change seating depths. Ita tell you on paper shooting groups. Mh loads are BR primers... but try diff primers too, it makes a difference.
 
I wet tumble a 6BR and easily get groups under 0.500". Your rifle is a factory 22-250. I would consider it a hunting rifle and not something to spend a lot of time on trying to shoot small groups. Get a Kreiger barrel in 6BRX and have a lot more fun.
So true. You cannot will a stock factory rifle with a long throat and sloppy cut chamber and barrel to shoot like my Bat model M action custom fit with a Bartlein heavy straight 1.25” barrel.
 
I have a factory Remington 700, 22-250 with a 1/14 twist. I am presently shooting Berger 52gr bullets. SAMMI specs say the mouth of the case should be .253.

After firing my cases, the neck winds up being should expand. In my case, a loaded round measures .251. After it is fired the case mouth is mostly .251 and .252 but some are as big as .255.

I recently turned 20 necks to .013. This was before I measured the cases today and found what I believe a screwed up bunch of numbers. The measurements do not change between the turned necks and the unturned cases.

In order to get the bullets anywhere near the lands, they are seated about 1/8 inch in the case.

I don't understand what is going on. Does anyone have an explanation?
If you don't have the reamer specs do (or find someone what can) a cerrosafe chamber cast, that will give you the dimensions you need to proceed from.
 
I have a factory Remington 700, 22-250 with a 1/14 twist. I am presently shooting Berger 52gr bullets. SAMMI specs say the mouth of the case should be .253.

After firing my cases, the neck winds up being should expand. In my case, a loaded round measures .251. After it is fired the case mouth is mostly .251 and .252 but some are as big as .255.

I recently turned 20 necks to .013. This was before I measured the cases today and found what I believe a screwed up bunch of numbers. The measurements do not change between the turned necks and the unturned cases.

In order to get the bullets anywhere near the lands, they are seated about 1/8 inch in the case.

I don't understand what is going on. Does anyone have an explanation?
Have you checked that the barrel is free floating and not touching the forearm? Difficult to check the scope out.
 
Some days it can't be beat, shootin 1/2 MOA or less. Other times some groups are as much as 1.5 inches.
That's interesting and that alone leads me away from your reloads.
Free floated barrel as was mentioned above. Does at least a dollar bill always feed evenly on the entire length? Before and after firing? Action screws secured properly?
The objective lens of the scope free of the barrel? Is the picatinny rail secure? Are the scope rings tight? Do you have any other scope to swap just see what happens?
You've probably done all this but I figured I mention it.
In my experience shot out barrels don't shoot ½" groups then jump tp 1½" and back again. Your loads are probably consistent (you're not a beginner)
I'd be sure all the mechanics of the rifle are correct.
I've had very few problems with scopes over decades HOWEVER I sold a Sako that was doing something like you have going, only to find the fault was the scope. Sometimes good, sometimes horrible. That story is 45 years old and I can still get pissy over what I did.
 
I have done most of what everyone suggests so far. Tried a different scope, barrel is free floating, action screws are torqued properly. What I have decided is to order a new barrel, 1/8 twist and let my gunsmith do his magic.
 
I have done most of what everyone suggests so far. Tried a different scope, barrel is free floating, action screws are torqued properly. What I have decided is to order a new barrel, 1/8 twist and let my gunsmith do his magic.
I wouldn't buy another 22-250. As long as your going to spend a lot of money i would buy a caliber that's known to be very accurate. My 6BR 14 twist will shoot 58 gr bullets a little over 3600 fps without signs of pressure. Also have a 6BRX I have not shot very much easily get over 3700 fps no pressure. Krieger barrel 0.030" free bore. Would get zero FB 12 twist if I bought another barrel. It's a Rem 700. With just a few trips to the range with the Sierra 60 gr Varminter I have shot 1 group in the 1's and several below 0.250". No struggle to shoot just about any load under 0.500".
 

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