Some questions on 6mmbr

[Siiri]

Hey,
There has been lots of talk about 6mmbr and I think it would be a good round for me. I am looking for a round that will be able to shoot quite some distance and something I could use in competitions one day. I am just starting out but I would like to have a gun that I can do many things with, and since I might be getting a credit from Savage from my 17HMR that is cracking the cases I thought I would take this opportunity to get a much better gun. ;D

So I have a few questions
1- Which Savage gun would be a best deal? I am looking at the 12 Bench Rest.
2- How does the benchrest stock work shooting off a bipod? I have a rest and will want to use a bipod later on.
3- Does anyone have some pictures of the 12 bench rest stock? Front and under side views would be great.
4- Which brass can I use in the 6 Norma br? I have been trying to follow what everything is being said and from what I take from it, is that the Rem brass is different and also some Laupa brass (new and old)?? ???
5- Also what would I have to do to the brass? Any neck turning?

Thanks!
Siiri

 

[1000yardstare]

Siiri.....don`t own a Savage 12 Bench Rest myself but the ones I have seen in action in F(Open) on the Army bases have been in 6.5x284 and shot off a pedestal. Never seen one with a bipod. I don`t believe there is a rail on the bottom of the fore end. The design of the bottom of the fore end meant to ride on a sandbag would make it awkward to attach a bipod.

I am in the process of putting together a 6BR build and have some of the same questions as you. I have a 100 count blue box of Lapua `new` brass sitting in front of me. I want a no-turn neck chamber. Sean at North Shore Barrels is checking his reamer as to neck diameter.

The only way to be really sure is send a dummy round to PT&G and ask them to cut a reamer for me. But I will wait for Sean`s answer.

Bye the Bye.........the best source of Lapua brass and bullets is Target Shooting Products in Toronto. Peter is a great guy to deal with. Web site is www.targetshootingproducts.com

Bill

 

[MarkS]

Siiri,

The 12 benchrest would be a good choice. You would what to get the 8 twist barrel. A stud would have to be added to use a Bipod. I use the type with a nut. Drill a small hole from the bottom and countersink the nut from the barrel channel, then you can screw the stud out for rest shooting.

Use Lapua brass only, no neck turning need. The Savage chamber is made for the Lapua brass.

Mark Schronce

 

[RonAKA]

I am looking for a round that will be able to shoot quite some distance and something I could use in competitions one day. I am just starting out but I would like to have a gun that I can do many things with...

So I have a few questions
1- Which Savage gun would be a best deal? I am looking at the 12 Bench Rest.
2- How does the benchrest stock work shooting off a bipod? I have a rest and will want to use a bipod later on.
3- Does anyone have some pictures of the 12 bench rest stock? Front and under side views would be great.
4- Which brass can I use in the 6 Norma br? I have been trying to follow what everything is being said and from what I take from it, is that the Rem brass is different and also some Laupa brass (new and old)?? ???
5- Also what would I have to do to the brass? Any neck turning?

1. The 6BR is a good choice for a cartridge. If you plan long distance (more than 300 meters) then you should get a 8 twist. There are a few Savages that will fit the bill. The 12 Bench Rest is one. The stock is set up for shooting off rests, and I would expect has a flat bottom stock that is 3" wide (the limit for most competition). Look at the photo in the link below. You will see this flat wide part of the forestock. It is not made to hold in your left hand, and would be quite awkward to do so.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12%20BENCH%20REST

The 12 F Class is very similar but has a straight rear part in the stock. That may allow it to recoil more predictably in rests. It also has a 1" longer barrel, and is heavier. This would be my choice for a pure target gun.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12%20F%20CLASS

Other options would be the LRPV. I have this model. It is also available in 6BR 8 twist. This is more of a cross between a target gun and varmint gun. The stock is made by HS Precision and is very solid with an aluminum bedding block. The forestock is only semi flat and only 2 1/4" wide (not 3" like a bench rest). It works but is probably not ideal in bench rests. I have the sling swivel attachments removed and put plastic packing tape on it to let is slide in the bags better. I will also say it is not a particularly pretty stock unless you happen to be into matte black stuff. Barrel is shorter at 26", and it offer a nice feature which is a right bolt and left port. Makes it more convenient to feed rounds and catch the empty cases. A bit lighter gun, but certainly not a lightweight.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRPV%20LEFT%20PORT

2. A bench rest stock will not likely have any means to attach a bipod, but certainly one could be fitted. A bench rest gun is set up to slide back smoothly in the front and rear rests and the bottom of the stock is smooth and free of obstructions.

3. You can get a bit of an idea from the Savage site. There is also their catalogue.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/savage_catalog_current.pdf

4. You want Lapua brass. It will work fine without neck turning if it is the blue box version.

 

[DennisH]

The 6BR is a good choice for a cartridge.

If I had it to do over again, it would be a 6BR! I don't know how serious you want to get but this is about the best overall gun! Savage is a great choice, just make the decesion if your going to strickly bench shoot, or want a combo gun. Then the LRVP is a good choice! I wish they made a VLP in 6BR, but they don't!

Then if you want a little more, have a 6BRX barrel made for your gun!

Reloading is worth the effort on both of these guns.

I shoot a 6.0x47Lapua which is a step above the 6BR and 6BRX, all you have to do is order the barrel and dies. Simple process, better than the 6BRX, just buy 6.5x47 Lapua brass, run it through the 6.0x47 sizing die, and your ready!

Brass seems to last forever on all three of the guns mentioned above! Barrel life is also good!

 

[Siiri]

A few more questions ...
Does the extra inch of barrel on the f class make a difference in velocity?
What is the fore end of the f class look like?
What kind of rest is the f class stock made to use with?

Thanks!
Siiri

 

[DennisH]

Best I can tell you, look at www.savagearms.com website, the target series guns, look for the VLP's, LRPV's, and the F series guns!

Does the extra inch of barrel on the f class make a difference in velocity?

Yes, my experience is every inch produces more "fps"

What kind of rest is the f class stock made to use with?

You would need a good gun rest, f class stocks are not made to shot with a bi-pod!

Go to www.6mmbr.com and look at the guns of the week. Also find any articles about just about anything!

Start here: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweekarchive.html

I am sure you will get plenty of ideas!

 

[bozo699]

Siiri,
From the type of shooting that you and the BF have been doing I think you would be more happy with the model 12 LRPV left port # 18671 it is a 6br 1:8 twist and my son has one just like it in a 1:12 and it is a great gun, you could do some shorter range competition with this gun the way it is if you wanted. They make single feed ramps for them and you see BR stocks on here all the time that would fit them if you get serious about competition. The reason I suggest LP is if you want to compete there way way easier to use. I have a #12 f-class in 6.5*284 and it is extremely accurate for a factory rifle but isnt handy @ all for casual target practice or Varmint hunting and neither would the bench rest model. I think most of the advise you have been given so far is good advise, but before you spend that kind of bank you and BF go to a couple of shoots and ask the guy's and gal's if you could look at there rifles, they will
and you will see what I mean about the BR rigs not being very handy for casual shooting, but very nice for there intended purpose. I think the new 204 that the BF has is more like what you would really want, and it could easily be turned into a br rig @ a later date, anyway JMHO good luck Siiri and you or BF can PM me anytime and I will help you kids in any way I can and so would just about anybody else on here.
Wayne.

 

[K0na_stinky]

I don't know if we can go to any matches. I'm not even sure where any take place. There is roomer of a bench rest club starting where we live but I doubt thats going to happen for some reason. So we don't have the opportunity to look at any bench guns.

I haven’t even seen a target gun. Closest thing I’ve seen would be my LRPV. So my question is why is a target gun like the F-class or benchrest not good for casual shooting? I understand that its not going to be something we will want to carry. What else is there? Once your laying in the field are their major differences?

For us its going to be hard. Local gun shops stock lots of rifles. But not one rifle for target shooting. One good thing for Siiri is she can play with my LRPV before she decides to get one. ;D

I'm also intrested in a more target based rifle. I want the F-class. I'm stuck inbetween 6br and 6.5-284.

Thanks a ton Wayne. And every one else.

 

[bozo699]

K0na_stinky,
The reason I said they wern't good for casual shooting is there heavy, My f-class Savage with scope is 16.9 lbs, it can't be over 17 to compete where I shoot and other places I would have to shed 3/4 of a lb. to be able to shoot, with that being said there not easy to manuver in the feild and they have a 3" forearm with square sides so there not comfortable to shoot off hand, I am not sure the bench rest or the ftr may have a rail on the bottom of the forearm for accessories, not sure but I know the f-class does not. I think the HS precission hunter/benchrest stock you have on your 204 would be just right for target practice and varmint hunting and even some local BR shooting. I have seen your groups from the 204 and they are nothing to sneeze @, the 6br should be even more accurate. My savage f-class 6.5*284 is a real shooter but it is just about all the recoil you want, It don't kill you like a big magnum but for competition it is about all I want. For Siiri defenitely the 6br vertually no recoil. For you the 6.5*284 will buck the wind way better than the little 6 but not nearly as much fun or as cheap to shoot as the 6br, If you were planning on a 1K yards I think I would go with the 6.5 if only occasionally to 1K and mostly 600 and under I would go with 6br absolutely I hope this helps some but there just my opinions, If your having to go off opinions I would listen to BoydAllen, RonAKA, and fdshuster, or any of the guy's on here that you feel allways seem to make sense when they post and arn't just boasting on themselves. Pm anyone of them and ask what they think, they have been very helpfull to me.
Wayne.

 

[DennisH]

My savage f-class 6.5*284 is a real shooter but it is just about all the recoil you want

The above gun is a stock Savage rifle? What's your favorite long range load (600 yds)?

 

[1000yardstare]

KOna.........you live in about the most isolated part of Canada as far as precision target shooting is concerned. I lived in Sudbury for 13 years which is a heck of a lot closer to Toronto but I still felt like I was living on the moon when it came to target rifle shooting. The Kenora club has a 500 metre range but I don`t know how organized they are. Even then that would be an all day trip for you to get there and back. People who don`t live in Ontario don`t realise what a huge province it is. Takes 3 days of steady driving to get from Toronto to the Manitoba border.

The most organized form of precision rifle shooting in Ontario is the Ontario Rifle Association that conducts many disciplines including Palma and F Class on the Army ranges in southern Ontario. I think F Class would be your interest. We just had our AGM and the practise schedule for this season is about to be released.

It would be nice to have you and Siiri come out for a practise but distances being what they are that is going to be tough. Anyway, check out the ORA at www.ontariorifleassociation.org

 

[bozo699]

My savage f-class 6.5*284 is a real shooter but it is just about all the recoil you want

The above gun is a stock Savage rifle? What's your favorite long range load (600 yds)?

Dennis,
I shot it last year @ the 1K yard finals in Missoula Mt. I had 50 one time fired Lapua brass, 52.5 H-4831, BR-2 primers and 139 Lapua Scenars. On sunday I shot a 96 in the heavy gun to win score of the day, The group was 13" but nine of the ten were in less than seven inches, seven in the ten ring two in the nine and one in the eight, thats not world class by any means but for a 100% stock f-class savage that wasn't even fully broke in yet I felt pretty good about it, especially since I was shooting against fully custom 70# rifles. To your 600 yard question I don't know I have never shot it @ 600 But I imagine it would do around three inches or less, @ 300 yards I can put them in a little less than 3/4". There not smooth and there not pretty but my custom was in the shop the other custom wasn't ready so I ordered the f-class and it was in, in three days for $1200 and some change and I was able to compete they are what they are I have since had it bedded and don't know how it will shoot, I guess I will find out on the 27th as I will head back to Missoula and enter it in the heavy gun again and my 6.284 or my 6brx in the light rifle and maybe my 6xc in the shotgun class : enjoy
Wayne.

 

[K0na_stinky]

Thank you Wayne. That clears things up for me really well. I'm going to get a 6br and I think Siiri should too. I think I might go ahead with the Fclass but maybe Siiri should get a LRPV. I don't need a second one. ;D

Siiri doesn't shoot well with a high recoil gun so the extra weight of the Benchrest or F-class might help but I guess its just going to be a pain.

Thanks 1000yardstare. Thanks for the info. We won't be able to come down there to shoot right now but maybe next summer. You never know. It would be nice to shoot at a nice range with seasoned shooters. It would be easy to learn alot.

 

[1000yardstare]

Siiri.......don`t know how much you have your heart set on a 6BR but another light recoiling option would be a .223. Very accurate off a bench and and would let you shoot in F/TR. With the 6BR you would have to shoot in F(Open) against the custom wildcats. Anyway just a thought.

The Robins are back down here on Lake Erie and the Maple sap is starting to flow. Nice sunny day above freezing. Going out to my club`s 300 metre range today and work on some F/TR loads in my .308. Also some coyote loads in my 6.5x55 and .270WSM.

 

[RJinTexas]

Siiri, I'm primary a varmint shooter who shoots a little VFS, most of my shooting is done from a bench whether it be portable or permint. That's where stocks with 3" wide forearms shine, they're designed to be shot off of a mechanical front rest as other have stated. I think a model 12 Savage would be wise choice, which ever stock you choose is a matter of personal preference. I'd go with the 6mmBR hands down for several reason, very mild recoil won't knock you off your scope and will allow you to see your hits, longer barrel life the a .204. 6BR's shot extremely well and are easy to reload for and they'll shoot a large selection of bullets. But unless your planing on shoot at 500 yds or longer a more more then you'll beshooting at 300 yds I choose a 12tw. I own three 6BR's, a 14, 12 and a 8tw of the three my 8tw gets used the least and the 12 gets the most use.
No matter what folks say a 8tw just don't shoot the lighter bullets as tight as a 12tw will. A 12tw will limit you to bullets no heavier then about 95grs. Keep in mind that the lighter bullets at less expensive to shoot. Every 12tw I seen shoots 80 and 88 fb Bergers extremely well. So many choices, but then that a good thing.

Good luck
RJ

 

[RonAKA]

But unless your planing on shoot at 500 yds or longer a more more then you'll beshooting at 300 yds I choose a 12tw. I own three 6BR's, a 14, 12 and a 8tw of the three my 8tw gets used the least and the 12 gets the most use.
No matter what folks say a 8tw just don't shoot the lighter bullets as tight as a 12tw will. A 12tw will limit you to bullets no heavier then about 95grs. Keep in mind that the lighter bullets at less expensive to shoot. Every 12tw I seen shoots 80 and 88 fb Bergers extremely well. So many choices, but then that a good thing.

It is a minor point, but you should go into this with your eyes wide open. I chose a Savage 6BR 12 twist for just these specific reasons. 300 meters is my outer limit, and I wanted the accuracy of a slower twist. The only issue that you need to be aware of is the throat length. In a custom chambered barrel you can make the throat length fit the lighter bullets you intend to shoot -- say for example the 68 grain Berger's or Bart's. But, in a factory gun, I think Savage are pretty much obligated to cut a longer throat that meets CIP and SAAMI minimum specifications. I have trouble seating low drag and lighter bullets out to the lands in my factory 12 twist. The 62 grain Berger's pattern like a shotgun, and I think it must be the long throat. The 68's shoot pretty well though, and the 80's almost as good. But, you need to be aware with a factory 12 twist you may be limited to that range of bullet weights.

It won't be any better of course for an 8 twist, but it also may not be any worse, and you have the flexibility of shooting up to 107 grains or so.

 

[K0na_stinky]

RonAKA do you think that the 1in8" 6br would be able to get a 105ish gr bullet into the lands? or we won't be able to make it?

 

[RonAKA]

RonAKA do you think that the 1in8" 6br would be able to get a 105ish gr bullet into the lands? or we won't be able to make it?

You should have no problem with the 105's making the lands. The 80 grain flat base fit well back in the neck for my 12 and I strongly suspect the throat in the 8 twist is likely the same length (as specified by CIP and SAAMI). Your only issue would be the very light bullets. And also as RJinTexas correctly pointed out, you will give up some short range accuracy with the high twist. At long range the heavier bullet with the high BC drifts less in the wind and usually more than makes up for the high spin inaccuracy.

 

[K0na_stinky]

You should have no problem with the 105's making the lands. The 80 grain flat base fit well back in the neck for my 12 and I strongly suspect the throat in the 8 twist is likely the same length (as specified by CIP and SAAMI). Your only issue would be the very light bullets. And also as RJinTexas correctly pointed out, you will give up some short range accuracy with the high twist. At long range the heavier bullet with the high BC drifts less in the wind and usually more than makes up for the high spin inaccuracy.

The high spin inaccuracy your talking about here. Will that be noticed in a factory rifle with amateur shooters? Or is it only noticed by a experienced shooter with a custom bench gun?