soft seating, hard seating and at the lands???

[gilmillan1]

Ok I need some help with these concepts. I have read about the different types of seatings that people use for competitive shooting, but I don't get the soft seating and hard seating. How do you determine this seating depth and how about hard seating?
Also what are the benefits of those seatings?

Help! I am confused

 

[minnesotamulisha]

I don't have an answer, but I am also interested.

 

[ShootDots]

Ok I need some help with these concepts. I have read about the different types of seatings that people use for competitive shooting, but I don't get the soft seating and hard seating. How do you determine this seating depth and how about hard seating?
Also what are the benefits of those seatings?

Help! I am confused

"Soft-Seating" is merely having less neck tension than can "hold" the bullet in place when seating into the lands. EXAMPLE: let say you are running 3K neck tension and "jam" the bullets 20K into the lands. You have enough "tension" in the neck to "hold" the bullet in place as you push the bullet to 20K in. If, on the other hand, you have a 1K neck tension and attempt to perform the same task (seating the bullet 20K in) you will PUSH the bullet back into the case neck as the resistance to pushing overcomes the ability of the neck tension to "hold" the bullet in place. That is SOFT SEATING..

Jason Baney, as described in his article on the portion called 6.5 x 284 in the cartridge guide section, uses this method. I do too. However, some rifles like MORE tension than others. If you are using say 3K neck tension and your rifle seems to want to shoot but you are not getting the kind of groups you had hoped for, ONE of the many areas to look at is neck tension. That is why most people use bushing dies as you determine how much tension by the size of the bushing.. I hope this helps..

 

[gilmillan1]

Wow. An eye opener. Thank you

 

[ShootDots]

Wow. An eye opener. Thank you

No problem>>>thats why everyone is here.. To learn and to help..

 

[lawrence97]

Ben, if you use soft seating, doesn't the length change as you get the barrel fouled and change your DTL.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Also one thing to watch out for with seating in the lands. Is neck tension. Hard 2k plus there is less likely to leave a bullet in the land if you have to unchamber a round. On the other hand a soft 1k neck tension you could possibly leave one in the lands and spill powder everywhere.

I use .002.5 neck tension and run .105 in the lands. And haven't had a problem so far.

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Arizona, do you mean .0105" in the lands? .105" seems like a long way.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Arizona, do you mean .0105" in the lands? .105" seems like a long way.

No I'm one hundred and five thousands in the lands. My over all length is 3.115

 

[ShootDots]

Ben, if you use soft seating, doesn't the length change as you get the barrel fouled and change your DTL.

To be honest with you>>I can't answer that. All I know is, is with VLD's I seat them 12-13K in the lands with slightly less than 1K neck tension>>>they will soft seat>>>and I get phenomenal accuracy out of my two 6 Dashers.. And this is repeatable match after match. However, I do chase the lands with ALL my guns, including the Dashers..

 

[minnesotamulisha]

Arizona, do you mean .0105" in the lands? .105" seems like a long way.

No I'm one hundred and five thousands in the lands. My over all length is 3.115

I didn't know that was possible. When seated that deep, what is your neck tension?

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Arizona, do you mean .0105" in the lands? .105" seems like a long way.

No I'm one hundred and five thousands in the lands. My over all length is 3.115

I didn't know that was possible. When seated that deep, what is your neck tension?

.002.5 I don't recommend this. But with my set up. The rifle likes it.

 

[Immike]

Rocky are you sure the bullet isn't just getting pushed in the case when you close the bolt?

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Rocky are you sure the bullet isn't just getting pushed in the case when you close the bolt?

No. I have gone as far as .118 in the lands and it didn't change the bullet seating. I did it multiple times, with as many as 10 rounds. I chambered and un chambered, checked the depth before and after and not one changed the depth or got stuck. Even my gun smith said wow!! I have a minimal tapered throater. This is why I can get away with this. If you try this with a standard 3 1/4 degree throat. BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN!!!!

 

[noload]

My chamber reamers are all 1.5* throat. I did a sample stub of barrel, just reamed it a bit to see how good or bad the throat leade machine tool marks looked liked, also its easier to check the throat dia.it looked ok , just for the heck of it I wanted to see what the land marks would look like if I smacked a 180 gr VLD into it with a 2 lb hammer (to see how the lands marked the bullet). I don't think I got it to jam .115". just sayin. My case would not have pulled it out, I knocked it out with a 1/4' ROD Bar from the muzzle end.

 

[UltraBR30]

Even with a lot of tension, any further into the lands then .020 to .030" or so and the bolt will move the bullet, in everything I've ever had.
Philip

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Not mine. I'm chambering a new barrel next week the exact same way. ;D

 

[UltraBR30]

How hard does your bolt close on those .105" jammed bullets?
Thinking there is confusion in what your stating or math error to the actual amounts, and strongly feel .105" from the start of engagement (zero) is not possible. Just saying.
Philip

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Not hard at all, it closes perfectly. And opens the same way.

I have already had 3 friends check it out in person and after they checked the bullet. They looked like deer in the headlights......... My gunsmith was surprised also but he said its because the bullet angle and the throat angle are almost perfect mates.

And I have tried .50 in that gave me 3/4" vertical at 500 yards and 0 at the lands gave me 1" plus vertical at 500 yards and the rifle didn't like it. My set up gives me 1/4 vertical at 500 yards.

 

[UltraBR30]

Are you speaking in terms of a used barrel, with excessive throat erosion ?
Else wise the bore itself would have to be as big as the bullets ogive, to slide in that far.
Your making claims that go beyond normality of chambered barrels. All the same, they are your claims and good luck.
Philip