So I Pulled Some Old Ammo

[USMCDOC]

Just cleaning up in the reloading stuff.. found some older ammo that i had loaded for a test and never pulled the pills from the case.. well if memory serves me correctly, this is about 10 years or so old. It is a SIE 80 with Varget


The powder in the pan is all that tap out, without digging into the case to extract it. Notice the powder clinging to the bottom of the bullet and the deformation of the bullet slightly..

 

[Webster]

Just cleaning up in the reloading stuff.. found some older ammo that i had loaded for a test and never pulled the pills from the case.. well if memory serves me correctly, this is about 10 years or so old. It is a SIE 80 with Varget

View attachment 1025170
The powder in the pan is all that tap out, without digging into the case to extract it. Notice the powder clinging to the bottom of the bullet and the deformation of the bullet slightly..

The powder has decomposed. Don't use it. It can only stick together if it's decomposed.

 

[jepp2]

I bet if you smell the powder, it will smell just fine. Doesn't look like the powders I have had that went bad. But that said, never hurts to error on the side of caution.

 

[USMCDOC]

The powder has decomposed. Don't use it.

Yeah.. i threw it all away.. forsure.. just glad that i didn't shoot it.

 

[USMCDOC]

I bet if you smell the powder, it will smell just fine. Doesn't look like the powders I have had that went bad. But that said, never hurts to error on the side of caution.

Indeed.. it never hurts at all..

 

[nmkid]

Last week I pulled some bullets from some test loads that were never shot, (obviously). They were less than 2 years old and the powder, (imr 4064) was completely caked up. I think maybe living in our high humidity might have something to do with it.

 

[USMCDOC]

Last week I pulled some bullets from some test loads that were never shot, (obviously). They were less than 2 years old and the powder, (imr 4064) was completely caked up. I think maybe living in our high humidity might have something to do with it.

That powder that is in the pan, is all the powder i could naturally get out of the case.. without using something to pry or dig it out..

 

[Kiwi Greg]

That powder that is in the pan, is all the powder i could naturally get out of the case.. without using something to pry or dig it out..

Which isn't at all surprising if the load was compressed.

It doesn't take long for that to happen either

 

[JohnKielly]

... and I bet you don't seal the primer and bullet in the case like the military does to mitigate against the environment acting on the components.

 

[T-shooter]

Just cleaning up in the reloading stuff.. found some older ammo that i had loaded for a test and never pulled the pills from the case.. well if memory serves me correctly, this is about 10 years or so old. It is a SIE 80 with Varget

View attachment 1025170
The powder in the pan is all that tap out, without digging into the case to extract it. Notice the powder clinging to the bottom of the bullet and the deformation of the bullet slightly..

The powder looks normal. Is it possible it was loaded when it was humid and the powder absorbed moisture? I've never had highly compressed loads but it's normal for the powder to stick a little. Usually, dumping the case half the powder comes out. Then tap it in the pan firmly and the rest comes out. Could the bottom of the bullet be deformed when you loaded it, compressed too tight?

The only thing I saw resembling this was when I washed some cases and reloaded them. I tapped the water out and let them set upright for a couple hours. I had some loads show pressure signs when they shouldn't. Pulled some apart and the powder (Varget) was clumped and stuck together and came out in big chunks. I had to scrape the inside to get it all out. The overpressure was probably steam when the round fired. Couldn't have been over a drop or two of water in the cases. I pulled all of them and 1/2 - 3/4 were pretty bad. Lesson learned!

 

[Fotheringill]

Doc-

I dress well and smell fine, but am rotten on the inside. Nobody wants to be the subject of a 2" item in the newspaper about using ten year old hand made ammo and getting hurt. You done the right thing.

 

[Recko555]

Sorry for the dumb question but what do you think would happen if someone tried to fire/shoot ammo like this?

My answer would be it would fire or it wouldn't.

 

[USMCDOC]

Sorry for the dumb question but what do you think would happen if someone tried to fire/shoot ammo like this?

My answer would be it would fire or it wouldn't.

Well i guess you could have issues with "detonation".. which is harmful.

 

[Recko555]

Are you saying the powder is more powerful than normal and will blow up the action?

 

[USMCDOC]

Are you saying the powder is more powerful than normal and will blow up the action?

Nope..

 

[wholman]

Is it possible that ammo has been stored in a place
that gets cold then hot and cause condensation.

 

[Laurie]

Some years back I pulled several hundred rounds of .30-06 milspec ball ammo all headstamped from between the 1920s and 1943, a mixture of M1 173gn FMJBT and WW2 era M2 150gn FMJ ammo. Many were in poor external condition with some surface corrosion.

The pre-war M1 rounds all had an extruded propellant originally (presumably Dupont IMR), but many of the WW2 M2s were headstamped WW and used Olin ball powder, others came from other armories and had extruded types. The WW headstamp M2s were externally very dull but had obviously been better stored than the others with no signs of moisture related tarnishing.

In all cases, the extruded charges had deteriorated badly, to the point of complete breakdown into a semi-gelatinous form with only a few individual kernels still visible in the older M1 cartridges. Although not as bad, the extruded powder M2 charges were far gone too. Some of these two groups were so bad, the broken down powder had corroded the cases internally so they pulled in half in a press mounted collet type bullet puller.

By contrast, the WW2 Winchester ball powder looked and smelled to be in perfect condition despite being around 60 years old. I was tempted to try loading some ... but then sense kicked in and the couple of pounds I recovered have been used in home made beer can fireworks. I was very impressed though by the powder's apparent longevity.

I also saw a large quantity of Lapua 308 match cartridges maybe 25 or 30 years ago loaded with the old 185gn Lapua D46 RBT and presumably Vihtavuori powders. They came from somewhere in the Far East (likely Hong Kong this being before the colony's return to the PRC) and had been stored in hot and humid conditions deteriorating to the point where they were sold for scrap. The powder was on the verge of breakdown and 'clumping', also producing an acrid smell. Some kernels had lost their graphite coating and showed up as a deep yellow colour. The dealer who got them tried recycling the powder (as did I) but results were very poor even at short range and lots of unburned powder was left in the barrel. We pulled thousands of these rounds for the bullets which were still usable although some had rather green bases like those in USMCDOC's photograph.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

The powder has decomposed. Don't use it. It can only stick together if it's decomposed.

Not at all. I've pulled a number of fresh reloads (no time to decompose) with powder kernels sticking together. Pressure can cause the kernels to stick together. It is common in compressed loads and when pulling loads where the primer detonated but failed to ignite the powder.

 

[fguffey]

I puled 400 cases + down that were loaded between 1971 and 1973, 20% of the 257 Weatherby and 7MM Remington Mag rounds would have fired, A few of the rounds were scary because the powder was caked at the neck of the case, some of the powder was caked near the primer, that was scary also. I do not load ahead with the intention of testing, if I am not going to the range I am not reloading.

But if I was I would test my reloaded ammo for leaks, I would place the loaded ammo in a glass jar filled with water. And then? I would place a vacuum on the jar. If the primers sealed and the bullets sealed I would not have bubbles escaping from around the bullets and primers.

Of the 240 rounds that would have fired I could have saved and then used the powder and primers.

F. Guffey

 

[T-shooter]

Best to keep your ammo cool and dry. I use a Stack-On rifle cabinet but they now have come out with an ammo cabinet the same size with more shelves. These run about $179 at Cabelas. They are heavy metal and lockable. You'll need to caulk any seams where air can get in. Then use a thin closed cell foam weatherstripping around the door opening. To keep it dry inside, one of the Dollar stores chains has these driers for $1 each. I use two, 1 high and 1 low. They need to be changed about once a year. The beads absorb moisture, dissolve, and collects as water in the bottom.



I use the same thing except it was listed as a 14 rifle security box. This is an old picture, ammo is stacked up from the floor and there is no room for the gun cases.