So, 22-250 or 22-250 Improved?

[Edd]

No reason to not other than the fact that the improved round may not feed reliably. Myself, single shot is how it all works. A Brother in Law went with an improved version and had trouble with feeding. Gary

This improved version shouldn't have any feeding problems.

 

[Edd]

I see Lapua is making 22-250 brass but as of yet I haven't found any source that actually has it.

If you plan to use Lapua brass, I suggest you purchase your brass and measure it before you order your reamer.

 

[pipe]

I love the old 22-250 & those cases do stretch. I am going to try the 22 Creed even iff i only get 1000 rounds out of it.

 

[Tommie]

This improved version shouldn't have any feeding problems.

Agreed. However the 28 degree version is almost a spitting image of a 22 Creedmoor and (as much as I hate to say it) the Creed would be the logical choice. Full disclosure: I shoot a 22-250 AI and have no beef with the cartridge.

 

[Edd]

I have two 6.5 Creedmoors, and a 6mm Creedmoor. I'm concerned about a Creedmoor OD so I'm going to go with a 28° improved 22-250. Also, I already have the reamer.

 

[284winner]

I've had a couple 22-250AI barrels. Currently still using a 30" 40° improved chamber with an 8 twist barrel. Gets me close to 3600 with 80 Amax bullets. Very accurate as well. I prefer the 8 twist over the slower barrels only because I can still get the lighter bullets to shoot well. Can't do the opposite. The 9 twist is a great compromise.

 

[DickE]

Bullet Central is definitely legit.

I know the owner, he is a real shooter in the short range benchrest game. Just bought 2 boxes of 22-250 Lapua brass from him.

 

[Pyscodog]

I now have both. One of my favorite rifles is my Rem 700 in 22-250AI and just picked up a Stevens 200 today in straight 22-250. At a little over 6 pounds the Stevens should be pleasant to carry. Hoping it shoots good.

 

[357Mag]

I have two 6.5 Creedmoors, and a 6mm Creedmoor. I'm concerned about a Creedmoor OD so I'm going to go with a 28° improved 22-250. Also, I already have the reamer.

Edd -

Howdy !

Since the stock .22-250 has a 28* shoulder angle, when you say you are going w/ a 28*
" Improved " iteration; you must be talking about a blown out shoulder.
What shoulder diam did you choose ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Edd]

Edd -

Howdy !

Since the stock .22-250 has a 28* shoulder angle, when you say you are going w/ a 28*
" Improved " iteration; you must be talking about a blown out shoulder.
What shoulder diam did you choose ?


With regards,
357Mag

Reamer print is in post #21.

My reamer is slightly different than that one in a couple of places because I intend to use Lapua brass. The shoulder diameter on mine is the same as that one.

 

[AccelR8]

I have obtained a full-length resizing die and I'm waiting on a (rented) reamer. I'll do a Cerrosafe cast on my die and make sure it and the reamer match before I start reaming

They are both 40 degrees, I'll make sure the other things like diameters are compatible.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Agreed. However the 28 degree version is almost a spitting image of a 22 Creedmoor and (as much as I hate to say it) the Creed would be the logical choice. Full disclosure: I shoot a 22-250 AI and have no beef with the cartridge.

I agree. 22 Creedmoor would be the logical choice using Lapua 6 cm brass if you want all that powder.

So much talk of reamer compatibility with the 22-250 but I think this might be much ado about nothing.

22xc is a milder version. Also super easy.

 

[AckleymanII]

If you plan to use Lapua brass, I suggest you purchase your brass and measure it before you order your reamer.

Those of you that want to go with Lapua brass, I hope you take this comment to heart.

Several guys I know of ordered std 22/250 AI reamers, then tried to use Lapua brass and found out the hard way that the Lapua brass is about .002 larger in the web, not to mention neck thickness.

PTG has reamers on file for the 22/250 AI with lapua brass.

I have been shooting the 22/250 AI since 1987, coyotes. Fire forming on a 26" barrel produces 3/8-5/8" with 55's doing 3850 fps, I was hunting coyotes while fire forming brass. Formed brass produced 4050 fps in the same barrel. After using R#15 and IMR 4064 burning out barrels quickly shooting ground squirrels, chucks, and jack rabbits, a gunsmith in San Diego turned me on to AA2700. Barrel wear with the 2700 is very different where the throat will wear a little but 10" of the barrel is not burned out. So, with AA2700, a barrel set back is easy. Win 760 is another powder that is easy on the barrels, but not quite as cool burning as the AA2700.

I shot 50g and 55g bullets most of the time but there is a load with a 60g Berger HP with the Win 760 at 3700 that shoots a bug hole and this particular load cuts a coyote in half!

As far as brass is concerned, 12 guys in our Predator calling club shot the 22/250 AI, and we used Winchester and Remington brass, later on I discovered PMC brass that is a tad tougher. Federal brass is junk soft case head brass.

I do not recall ever trimming a case with a 22/250 AI, never. During the fire forming process, the case OAL shrinks about .020 making for a shorter neck...forget case trimming.

I shot 12 twists with the AI, due to the 60g bullets that are just horrendous killers at 3700 fps.

Actions I used were Rem 700's, 722's, and Ruger 77's, no feeding issues with the AI

If you are going to go 22 Creed, take a close look at your reamer print in relation to the brass you want to use, as there are around several different dimensions on the web size for this brass, lapua will be very different from Hornady dimensions for example.

Also, do not fall prey to a long freebore for shooting 75-90g bullets if you want to shoot 50-60g bullets. All of my AI reamers I have had used either a zero freebore or a .020 freebore, and my preference is the .020 freebore.

Good luck!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Those of you that want to go with Lapua brass, I hope you take this comment to heart.

Several guys I know of ordered std 22/250 AI reamers, then tried to use Lapua brass and found out the hard way that the Lapua brass is about .002 larger in the web, not to mention neck thickness.

PTG has reamers on file for the 22/250 AI with lapua brass.

I have been shooting the 22/250 AI since 1987, coyotes. Fire forming on a 26" barrel produces 3/8-5/8" with 55's doing 3850 fps, I was hunting coyotes while fire forming brass. Formed brass produced 4050 fps in the same barrel. After using R#15 and IMR 4064 burning out barrels quickly shooting ground squirrels, chucks, and jack rabbits, a gunsmith in San Diego turned me on to AA2700. Barrel wear with the 2700 is very different where the throat will wear a little but 10" of the barrel is not burned out. So, with AA2700, a barrel set back is easy. Win 760 is another powder that is easy on the barrels, but not quite as cool burning as the AA2700.

I shot 50g and 55g bullets most of the time but there is a load with a 60g Berger HP with the Win 760 at 3700 that shoots a bug hole and this particular load cuts a coyote in half!

As far as brass is concerned, 12 guys in our Predator calling club shot the 22/250 AI, and we used Winchester and Remington brass, later on I discovered PMC brass that is a tad tougher. Federal brass is junk soft case head brass.

I do not recall ever trimming a case with a 22/250 AI, never. During the fire forming process, the case OAL shrinks about .020 making for a shorter neck...forget case trimming.

I shot 12 twists with the AI, due to the 60g bullets that are just horrendous killers at 3700 fps.

Actions I used were Rem 700's, 722's, and Ruger 77's, no feeding issues with the AI

If you are going to go 22 Creed, take a close look at your reamer print in relation to the brass you want to use, as there are around several different dimensions on the web size for this brass, lapua will be very different from Hornady dimensions for example.

Also, do not fall prey to a long freebore for shooting 75-90g bullets if you want to shoot 50-60g bullets. All of my AI reamers I have had used either a zero freebore or a .020 freebore, and my preference is the .020 freebore.

Good luck!

I am still confused by this...

Run the brass through a SAMMI die and you get a SAMMI web?

Am I missing something here? Why would you need a special reamer for a die that does not match the reamer????? People are using SAMMI dies.

 

[urbanrifleman]

22-250 + Lapua brass = clickers on first time firing Remedy? (problem solved!)

Well maybe this explains why my Hart 22-250 with Lapua is a durnfool mess of clickers. I thought it was hot load. Time to resize it as much as possible and try a few. But this certainly explains things because I don't see my load being very warm at all. Maybe the tolerances are tighter in...

forum.accurateshooter.com

From the top post:

"I replied (paraphrased) with MHO that my one experience with Lapua 22-250 brass sucked. I was working up to my already established 55g load with WW brass the only change was new Lapua brass. I got to 1.5 grains below my established WW brass load and started getting a click. Did I stop? No. At 1 grain below, I had to pop the bolt open with the base of my palm. Once fired resized works fine. I ran all virgin cases through my fl die twice before initial firing. Seemed to solve the problem."

Make the brass fit the chamber seems to be the fix. Not make a new chamber.

 

[Spook]

22 Middlestead and dont look back.
After messing with every known configuration of 22'250, 22BR, 22BRX ,22PPC I'm down to the 22 Grendle and 22 Middlestead. Everything else is junk.

 

[AckleymanII]

Many people shooting the 6 BRA and other cartridges would argue that this does not work, Harrells makes dies to accommodate different reamer and chamber dimensions. I wonder how many reamers Alex Wheeler had ground before he ended up with the dimensions he liked to accommodate the 6 BR brass?

I have done what you suggested by making a die that shaves off the brass to make it a smaller dimension new out of the box, otherwise, you are dealing with a lot of "spring back" down the road.

The 22/250 AI runs some serious pressure where it operates at it's best. Trying to run CIP spec brass in a SAAMI spec chamber is a fools errand, in spades. Have your reamer ground for SAAMI or CIP spec brass. You can of course run SAAMI brass in a CIP chamber without issues other than a smallish bulge in the web and a little more expansion in the neck where some CIP chamber dimensions are for thicker neck brass. Another excellent example of this is the difference between Winchester 220 Swift brass and Norma 220 swift brass.

As far as dies goes, that is another issue.

Then you get into reamer design on the brass:

.466 web dia at the .200 line from the bolt face-Winchester(approximate)

.4685 web dia at the .200 line from the bolt face-Lapua/Norma just as an example(approximate)

Typically, you want .002 clearance for a match chamber at a bare minimum

Hunting, .003-.004 on a bare minimum

Now, you find out your reamer is .470 at the .200 mark from the bolt face(just for illustration purposes).
This will leade to premature false high pressure readings on bolt lift. This is one heck of a mess to deal with, when you have your head wrapped around using good brass to find out that it just will not work.
All the guys shooting 6 BR's, 6 BRA's, 6 BRX's, 6 Dashers, have all struggled with this issue.

Another issue that is just as bad is the neck thickness of Lapua/Norma brass vs the neck thickness of Winchester and Rem brass.

Look before you leap, Know the numbers on your brass dimensions, reamer dimensions. It is prudent to buy a set of dies and the brass prior to designing a reamer...especially these days with shortages of all kinds and likely to get worse.

Currently, I have around 2000 Hertenberger 308 Match cases brand new, German, and 243 PMC brass that are CIP spec brass. NO way way in this world can I size this brass down to match my SAAMI spec chambers with my Rock Chucker press or the Redding Boss press. This is just a couple of mentions of how I have got busted over the years trying to adapt CIP brass in a SAAMI match Chambers. Often, the CIP brass will chamber when new, but by the first or second firing, the brass simply does not work in the chamber when using loads that are at the top end of the pressure curve.

I have gone through small base web sizers to attempt to make the brass work. Each case is an individual issue based on reamer dimensions and case dimensions, I can not stress this fact enough. John Whidden even made me a set of graduated web sizers, that did not work worth a darn either because of spring back. What would have worked was a die that would shave the dimension down to SAAMI spec when new....NOT the solution.

Each individual case is different. Also, the technique that the gunsmith uses to chamber a barrel is also an issue. Some techniques lend themselves to cut exact reamer dimensions, while other techniques do NOT!

Factory chambers can often use CIP brass because they do not use match chamber dimensions and this is often where a lot of confusion is.

 

[Tommie]

Everything else is junk.

Ok

 

[AccelR8]

Reading all the replies is informative. I appreciate the input.

I have not bought brass yet. Honestly I think it would be wise to see how this contraption is going to shoot before I invest a hundred or two in brass. This was a free barrel blank of unknown origin that sat in a pile on a shop floor of half a dozen or so left-overs from a production run several years ago, by a guy I know. I think I will probably start off with some PPU or other inexpensive factory ammo and test with that and if the results are promising then get a quantity of good brass to develop loads for next spring/summer.

I read on another forum someone was saying Winchester brass has a high loss rate when fire forming to AI. I wonder if that's just one guy's experience or a common thing.

The reamer situation is mildly frustrating. Keep in mind this started as a low cost “fun” winter project.

I wanted to rent a reamer from “a guy.”. His website says essentially, we don't have every size pilot available. You can request a specific size, if we don't have it we'll ship out your order and when you return it we'll refund the amount for the pilot we didn't have (but of course not the reamer rental, gauges, insurance, shipping, etc).

I need a .2177-.2178 pilot, which I think is the smallest commonly available. Nothing larger will work, there's no other options. I email and ask, do you have that pilot? He replies, all your questions can be answered by reading our website. Well, in this case no. I try to explain why I'm asking, I get a short reply “there's a special request box.”

I think you can see, I don't want to just go ahead and order and see if I can use it or not when it arrives. I don't want to pay for something I can't use. But he can't answer my question. OK, no problem. We are all very busy and short on help so I'll move on. I go to another rental website. This place has a fixed pilot reamer and it says the pilot is .2177. I look at their reamer schematic. There, it says the pilot is .2190. I email and ask for clarification. Over a week now and no reply.

I guess the way forward is to buy a custom pilot bushing, wait the six to eight weeks for it, and then when it's in hand order my reamer. Just between us friends here...I attempted to make a pilot bushing. I got the ID and OD spot-on but I have about 4 or 5 tenths out of concentric. I can take another stab at it but that might be the limit of my capability

Whining...maybe. All of that to say it might be a while before I have results to report. Thanks again for all the input it is quite informative.

...and I'll add...I have the barrel profiled, threaded, polished to 320 grit, just waiting for a chamber, crowning and bluing. At this point I may simply chamber it SAMMI .223. Or .222. Not that I need another of either, especially not a 1:9, but that might be the easy button.