• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

SMT @ 2017 F-Nats?

I’m curious whether any of this year’s participants have experiences they’d like to share about how the SMT system performed at WGC this year.
 
As am I. Having helped run on nof these years ago I know this is a big ask, but I would love to hear from the organizers how they set up, calibrated and maintained the targets throughout the weekend. Was extra parts needed them to damage, etc. Any competitor challenges taken to the jury or the ref?
 
It seems their accuracy is hard to challenge. Their reliability isn't...break down, red X's, long delayed...no place for this at National Championships IMO..rules on how to handle failures/breakdown/ghost shoots/missed shoots/targets scoring and showing 3-4 shots behind..need to be consistent with everyone, every time, all the time

They do have positives...no pit service, saves time, can learn from watching other shooters shot, etc.
 
It seems their accuracy is hard to challenge. Their reliability isn't...break down, red X's, long delayed...no place for this at National Championships IMO..rules on how to handle failures/breakdown/ghost shoots/missed shoots/targets scoring and showing 3-4 shots behind..need to be consistent with everyone, every time, all the time

They do have positives...no pit service, saves time, can learn from watching other shooters shot, etc.

was the red x loss of comms to the mobile device or the transmitter shutting down? I have noted that when I saw the X on some tablets others watching the target still had it on screen, so I wonder how much of this is a tablet issue? What was you're experience? I have limited experience on these so I'm curious if there is a trend.
 
Chris

To be honest, it will be hard for me to give fair account of the system..myself and John Myers were leading going into the last day of the Mid-Range nationals..on first relay, the system screwed up on my target(long story, lots of details)causing me to shot a 9 bases on the info I was getting from the tablet. This frustrated me terribly and I let my anger over it effect me the rest of the match. I shot terrible from that point on, which is 100% on me, not the system.

The red X were caused by loss of signal between the devices from what I understand. It seemed that people up moving around between repeater and shooters caused some of this..just my opinion... When the system just shut down(like what I believe it did on my target - which was confirmed on the next relay when the whole line shutdown leading to a reshoot for all the shooters on the relay - it started lossing shots, etc..
 
Last edited:
If I had to install these at my range, the one thing I'd make sure that happened was I'd allow no equipment coming off the line or be set up on the line by the next shooter unitl the relay that was shooting was complete..I do believe that people up moving around was blocking signals from repeater(there where four or five of these stands on the firing line) to the shooters/scorers tablets causing the big red X indicating signal loss..I also believe that the system at times got "overloaded" - ie...lots and lots of people that weren't shooting or scoring was still online with the phones or tablets watching everyone else shot and score...while I found this to be a great thing about the E Targets, I also wonder if its what caused the system to crash a couple of times too during the shoot..
 
Last edited:
That sucks.

I was wondering just how much some of the computers and Wi-Fi systems could handle. There looked to be a great turn out and I wonder if maybe the number of devices connected need to be limited?

I work for a mobile carrier and even though 802.11 isn't in my wheelhouse, I know that all RF systems get stressed the more you put on it. Changing modulation/ codex can help keep the data clean but eventually all SW is overwhelmed and modulation will drop, passing less data. Most systems reduce the footprint to keep the signal level as clean as possible(dropping fringe devices is a result) , but commercial grade Wi-Fi may not be able to handle this.

Does anyone kmow if there was just one wifi set up for the firing line tablets or did they use a setup that spread the wireless load between multiple transmitters?
 
There are lots of reasons why a system like this might have an issue. I can think of 20 right off the top of my head (some of them nefarious even) and I bet none of them are right. Speculation is entertaining, but ultimately pointless because no one outside of the few working directly on the system, have any data to work with to even be able to begin to troubleshoot.

FWIW, the system was far better this year than last year. I still think the display can use some work and on whole, I still prefer manual over e-targets, but the gap is much closer for me than it was after last year.
 
Jay,

my interest is to head issues off before we have them happen to us. Right now, we only have two and we aren't seeing issues beyond some tablet issues overheating, etc. As an RF troubleshooter by trade, I can't help but look at accounts like this and contemplate how we can avoid complications. I think with two targets and 10 or so shooters this is a non-issue, but as our SMT count goes up we need to be ready to tackle some of this, or head it off with range policy and possibly different ways of setting up the wifi.

The paper target looks promising for sure. I was hoping someone has something like this!

Chris
 
There are lots of reasons why a system like this might have an issue. I can think of 20 right off the top of my head (some of them nefarious even) and I bet none of them are right. Speculation is entertaining, but ultimately pointless because no one outside of the few working directly on the system, have any data to work with to even be able to begin to troubleshoot.

FWIW, the system was far better this year than last year. I still think the display can use some work and on whole, I still prefer manual over e-targets, but the gap is much closer for me than it was after last year.
Right, we don't have any traces or diagnostic information to analyze - they do. What is surprising is how long this has been a serious problem - two seasons now. Since it is eminently reproducible, it should be straight forward to fix. I've been there a couple of times and have had it happen several times each day as well observed it happening around me to other shooters. Oh, and I was on the line directly facing the repeater, less then 100ft away, with absolutely no obstructions.
 
  • All I have to say is when they worked, I thought it was OK. I just had to tell myself that everybody else was shooting on the same thing. During the 50 whatever minute delay Friday, I had a great conversation with Lou Murdica about the merits of cut and button barrels. It nearly reminded me of conservations I've had and people I've had the pleasure to meet pulling targets. Both have merits. I can honestly say I am also looking forward to the bus ride to the pits next year.
 
It seems their accuracy is hard to challenge.

They do have positives...no pit service, saves time, can learn from watching other shooters shot, etc.

Take a really close look at the picture above. If you look closely, the shooter got some bias out of the system. A lot of benefit in that lower left corner.
 
Take a really close look at the picture above. If you look closely, the shooter got some bias out of the system. A lot of benefit in that lower left corner.

What if those shots that are on the line had been on the other side of the target?
 
The paper has not been put in the acoustic centre. The paper is merely an aiming point, the monitor is the target.
The main PITA with E targets not in the acoustic centre is that not only the elevation zero is out (It only takes a shot or two to work that out), but if the wind zero is out, it can take quite a few shots to realise it is not your wind reading which is out, but the apparent wind zero. In a fishtail wind, this can be a real pain.
 
No I don't shoot at the monitor, I shoot at a acoustic centre. Rod you should practice at just using a small black dot ( ie 19mm ) and believe what you see on the monitor it is telling the same story as paper. SMTs have less issues than Kongsberg. The sound chamber being the biggest problem caused by lack of or proper maintenance. I own one use both and do the maintenance on both.
By the way congrats on the FCWC shoot.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,845
Messages
2,204,051
Members
79,148
Latest member
tsteinmetz
Back
Top