Smallbore F Class Rules

[ccollier]

One of the advantages would be the ease of loading. I shoot fclass in both centerfire and rimfire. Centerfire is much easier to single-load, especially for us older shooters - with the bigger case and more room in the action. The rimfires are much harder to hold and feed and can get down right slippery with the bullet lube, especially in the summer heat.
I shoot a Vudoo in rimfire fclass and I single feed it but if given the choice I'd shoot repeater in a heartbeat. The single shot adapter Vudoo makes works just fine but you have to take great care when placing the bullet on the adapter, if it falls off it can take some effort to get it repositioned.
I would think that if allowing a rimfire fclass shooter the option to use a repeater would increase the numbers of participants - that would be a good thing! Right?
I shoot regularly with 4-5 other shooters that are single feeding a repeater. I also know 3-4 more shooters that have high quality repeaters that are reluctant to shoot with us because of the single shot rule.
With that being said, I am very thankful that we have rimfire fclass available to shoot and will continue to participate either way.

 

[Outrider27]

What would be the advantage of using a repeater over a single shot in F class?

One advantage is that you don't have to go out and spend lots of money on a new high end single shot rifle to compete if you have one of many quality repeaters that shoots well for you for which no single shot adaptor is made.

 

[justinp61]

One advantage is that you don't have to go out and spend lots of money on a new high end single shot rifle to compete if you have one of many quality repeaters that shoots well for you for which no single shot adaptor is made.

Understood. I guess a better question would be "why were the rules written as to exclude repeaters?" Or, what was the "perceived advantage" of a repeater over a single shot?

 

[1813benny]

Justinp61
The rules for F-SBR were not generated to exclude repeating rifles. F-SBR rules were an adaptation and combination of the existing smallbore rifle rules and F-Class rules. I cannot go back 70 or 80 years to fully understand every detail for the single loading rule, but as a major contributor to the generation of the ASSA F-SBR rules, I can state that exclusion of repeating rifles was never brought up or considered.

ASSA has already initiated internal discussions regarding this topic. I can state that no consideration would be given to the use of tube type magazines as they cannot be easily removed and / or unloaded for making the range safe.

Best Regards,
Ken
ASSA Secretary / Treasurer

 

[justinp61]

Justinp61
The rules for F-SBR were not generated to exclude repeating rifles. F-SBR rules were an adaptation and combination of the existing smallbore rifle rules and F-Class rules. I cannot go back 70 or 80 years to fully understand every detail for the single loading rule, but as a major contributor to the generation of the ASSA F-SBR rules, I can state that exclusion of repeating rifles was never brought up or considered.

ASSA has already initiated internal discussions regarding this topic. I can state that no consideration would be given to the use of tube type magazines as they cannot be easily removed and / or unloaded for making the range safe.

Best Regards,
Ken
ASSA Secretary / Treasurer

Thanks, Justin

 

[Mark Self]

I love seeing this discussion, I would like to see the growth in Smallbore like we have seen in NRL22. I am a Match Director and love adding new disciplines to our big club. Like I said before I have had a call to add F-Class to our line up of Rimfire shoots we have already.

 

[LESLEY]

The reason they don't want repeaters is.You can shoot fast.Catch a condition and hold off and shoot through it. You can not shoot as fast and hold off as good single loading. I shoot 2 monthly matches with my Vudoo. Including sighters and 20 shoots for score takes 4.5 minutes. Its a 50 and 100 yard match. I always.s shoot a 1200 .with 115 to 117X. The reason is I have e repeater. Some people don't want to upgrade. The bunch of guys I shoot with have been doing this their whole lives. I shot my first match in January. It is no different than when I started F/Class. The sling shooters hated it. Now F/Class shooters out number Palma shooters. I use to shoot open sights. I got to dam old though. My shoulder wont take it. Times and shooters and changing. Face it you either upgrade or your left behind.

 

[Mark Self]

The reason they don't want repeaters is.You can shoot fast.Catch a condition and hold off and shoot through it. You can not shoot as fast and hold off as good single loading. I shoot 2 monthly matches with my Vudoo. Including sighters and 20 shoots for score takes 4.5 minutes. Its a 50 and 100 yard match. I always.s shoot a 1200 .with 115 to 117X. The reason is I have e repeater. Some people don't want to upgrade. The bunch of guys I shoot with have been doing this their whole lives. I shot my first match in January. It is no different than when I started F/Class. The sling shooters hated it. Now F/Class shooters out number Palma shooters. I use to shoot open sights. I got to dam old though. My shoulder wont take it. Times and shooters and changing. Face it you either upgrade or your left behind.

Where the HELL is the LOVE button, only found the like button!

 

[Gilbert Garza]

I don’t know how many show up to your single shot matches but imagine if you opened the gates to the over 94,000,000 Ruger 10/22’s and only god knows how many other rifles to these matches. As a match director I would embrace with open arms an additional 5x as many repeaters in our matches. If it’s a speed issue, who cares, you think he’s more accurate cause he’s fast, accuracy through volume has never played well in anything I shot. If the ASSA could increase membership by 10% or add a fraction of these shooters why would that be a bad thing? What are the single shotters worried about. Match profits would go up, accessories would sell cause everyone wants to be competitive, membership would increase and the sport would thrive. Again why were they excluded ??!??

The biggest reason why I won’t add that single part to my Vudoo is it’s just a pain, have to remove barreled action, remove ejector part of action, install that part to go play.
Without that part, single feeding on a control round feed rifle sucks. I can’t put it on the mag cause it won’t feed without damaging the bullet. Easiest way is from the mag, bolt closing lifts bullet and centers into chamber perfectly.

 

[Jdne5b]

I also think its a good idea to find a way to incorporate repeaters into the smallbore rules, without a huge impact to the way the game is played. Maybe it should be a division, F-Open, FTR, F-Repeater?

 

[Mark Self]

Damn it once again, where is the love button! Another division is not needed but that would be a way to make the guys that single feed feel better when they beat a outlaw repeater rifle. That's just a joke people! I have been beat up in other places for even bringing this subject up! My favorite is you are wrong f-class is growing fast why change it...No smallbore is dying CENTER-FIRE F-CLASS is just starting to grow back ONLY BECAUSE OF E-TARGET SYSTEMS, THAT IS THE ONLY REASON!!!!!! We have had jump in our numbers at our local F-class matches just for that reason. But I do know the old guard in f-class didn't like that new high-tech scoring, but new change is saving an old game! I know prs shooters coming out enjoying another game and working on there rifles to make them dead nut accurate. This is a good thing!

 

[Jdne5b]

Damn it once again, where is the love button! Another division is not needed but that would be a way to make the guys that single feed feel better when they beat a outlaw repeater rifle. That's just a joke people! I have been beat up in other places for even bringing this subject up! My favorite is you are wrong f-class is growing fast why change it...No smallbore is dying CENTER-FIRE F-CLASS is just starting to grow back ONLY BECAUSE OF E-TARGET SYSTEMS, THAT IS THE ONLY REASON!!!!!! We have had jump in our numbers at our local F-class matches just for that reason. But I do know the old guard in f-class didn't like that new high-tech scoring, but new change is saving an old game! I know prs shooters coming out enjoying another game and working on there rifles to make them dead nut accurate. This is a good thing!

Im not one to usually suggest dilluting the competition pool, but it may make sense. The pure accuracy games are dying on the vine, why exclude people with certain types of equipment when they could safely shoot what they have given a new rule set.

 

[1813benny]

There are many aspects to review on this topic.

Shooting disciplines are developed with specific rules that evolve over time. Some are beneficial and others are detrimental and each potential impact needs to be evaluated. The long term goal is to certainly increase participation and the status of the shooting sports, however each solution may have long term unintended consequences that can be as bad - or worse - than the status quo.

I can again confirm that ASSA will continue to review this topic as thoroughly as possible. We are obtaining addition input from the current F-SBR competitors on how we can grow participation and work towards maintaining the overall intent of this type of competition.

Regards,
Ken
ASSA Secretary/Treasurer

 

[LESLEY]

All we are asking for is to be able to shoot F/Class with a repeater. The die hard single shot guys don't have to worry. It will add more people to shoot in matches. I allways take an extra rifle and ammo to matches. So anyone that wants to tryout a repeater can try one. How about this let us shoot our Vudoos when you single load guys hand us our ass maybe we will start single loading. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[LESLEY]

come on die hard single shot shooters.Lets get more 22 shooters to shoot matches and put us repeater guys in our place. You can do it

 

[BP1]

I would think some match directors will allow repeaters at local matches,but any records set wouldn’t count with the rules that are in place right now.I would also think at State and national events a repeater would be a no go.This is the main reason I went with the Vudoo I don’t mind taking a few minutes and changing out the follower.

 

[davidjoe]

come on die hard single shot shooters.Lets get more 22 shooters to shoot matches and put us repeater guys in our place. You can do it

Not just old school, single-room-school-house old. Looking to second-life a 52-D very soon with maybe a new fiberglass stock. Mark’s suggestion of being able to single round load a magazine, until a part is devised and distributed, wouldn’t bother a single-round-feeder like me one bit. (Unlike a 700 or 70, you can’t just lay a round on top of the magazine and close the bolt, and if you remove the mag, it falls through). I think some service rifle folks have been doing this for decades. I kind of cringe at the effort they have to go through since it is totally distracting and leaves on the table the rifle’s intended capability, but they do have certain matches that permit totally full magazine use.

 

[Mark Self]

Not just old school, single-room-school-house old. Looking to second-life a 52-D very soon with maybe a new fiberglass stock. Mark’s suggestion of being able to single round load a magazine, until a part is devised and distributed, wouldn’t bother a single-round-feeder like me. I think some service rifle folks have been doing that for decades. I kind of cringe at the effort they have to go through since it is totally distracting and leaves on the table the rifle’s intended capability, but they do have certain matches that permit magazine use.

View attachment 1121746

Watch this single feeder beat all of us repeater guys this weekend at the ABRA bench Rest...great Win David!

 

[Ned Ludd]

All we are asking for is to be able to shoot F/Class with a repeater. The die hard single shot guys don't have to worry. It will add more people to shoot in matches. I allways take an extra rifle and ammo to matches. So anyone that wants to tryout a repeater can try one. How about this let us shoot our Vudoos when you single load guys hand us our ass maybe we will start single loading. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You can shoot F/Class with a repeater, you just have to single feed it. No with a repeater is barred from participating, they just have to single feed like everyone else. I have a CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer I had "accurized" for this very purpose. Frankly, it's a PITA to single feed this rifle, but not impossible. I purchased the single feeding tray/mag from CZ, and if anything, it makes things even worse. Nonetheless, I have single-fed this rifle from day one, because that's how I'm used to shooting after years in [centerfire] F-Class. If I can do it, anyone ought to be able to do it. Are the Voodoo's really that difficult [or impossible] to single feed? Or do you really just want to rapid fire on the targets because A) you can, and B) you perceive it's an advantage to do so?

 

[Mark Self]

You can shoot F/Class with a repeater, you just have to single feed it. No with a repeater is barred from participating, they just have to single feed like everyone else. I have a CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer I had "accurized" for this very purpose. Frankly, it's a PITA to single feed this rifle, but not impossible. I purchased the single feeding tray/mag from CZ, and if anything, it makes things even worse. Nonetheless, I have single-fed this rifle from day one, because that's how I'm used to shooting after years in [centerfire] F-Class. If I can do it, anyone ought to be able to do it. Are the Voodoo's really that difficult [or impossible] to single feed? Or do you really just want to rapid fire on the targets because A) you can, and B) you perceive it's an advantage to do so?

Just like you stated that the CZ is a pain in the ass to feed the Vudoo is control round feed and impossible without a ultra pain the ass adapter to add in. There are guys who have purpose built Vudoo's with the adapter in place. But guys like me a and many other will shoot F-class on a Saturday and a PRS style match on Sunday. I say this because next week i have a Sat and Sun day match. I have the adapter to install but I am not, it means me having to pull the rifle out of my chassis, pulling the ejector and replacing it with this adapter putting the gun back in the chassis and sighting it back in. Then after the match pulling everything apart taking it out, putting the rifle back together and sighting it back in...PAIN IN THE ASS. ONCE AGAIN LET ME STATE THIS FOR THE RECORD AGAIN SINCE PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT JUMP ON THE SINGLE FEED BANDWAGON THINKING I AM ARE TALKING ABOUT WANTING CHANGE IN BOTH CENTER FIRE AND RIMFIRE....THIS IS A RIMFIRE ONLY PROBLEM....Also I don't feel there is any advantage...Look you want to shoot fast good for you. Our ABRA benchrest this past Saturday was won by the only single feed rifle there. Did some of the guys finish before him, yes but I had a repeater and darn near took as much time as David did.