Small Things

[Court178]

Small Things
I've been here for several years and have read multiple articles (opinions) on how and why to do certain procedures in reloading, but this is my first time posting. Be gentle. Although the articles mostly refer to one process or procedure. I would like to look at all of the small things that go into precision reloading and determine what is the most important to the least important in your opinion. If some have an equal rating on importance, then that's ok. I believe that some of these are vital to shooting accurately but some might just give a "good" feeling. Which in itself can be beneficial.
I shoot short range benchrest but would like to try F-class eventually. I understand that most if not all of my reloading techniques will be the same. During matches I've walked along the reloading areas to see how the "Big Boys" do it. Lots of different ideas. There is a lot of prep that goes on before you ever get to a competition that isn't obvious without a detailed conversation.
Without going into the details on exactly how to do the following procedures, I was wondering what processes I should adopt into my routine. Although I do some of these already, I would like to try more to up my game. I'm the type of person who is willing to try new things and not set in their old ways. Very open minded to new ideas and understands that something that works for one might not work for all. But I don't have the time or money to try every single one of these and shoot targets to see the results. It's also because I'm not a good enough shooter to be able to say that what I did differently caused a better group. Was it my gun handling that day or conditions, etc. Just trying to shorten my learning curve and hopefully tune out some of the noise that doesn't help.
Here are some of the small things I came up with and not necessarily in any specific order. It's not meant to be all inclusive so if you have any others to add that's more than ok. I know that there are lots of other variables to shooting small groups but I'm hoping that with some of these I'll have good brass and bullets to start with. Yes, this is like the which is better (.308 vs 6.5cm), (Chevy vs Ford) debate and will be very opinion-oriented but that's ok because I'm hoping to glean some tidbits of knowledge from your experience.

1. Annealing - Every firing or after a match/day? Some vs not at all.
2. Uniform primer pockets.
3. Debur flash holes
4. Weigh vs throw powder charges
5. Weigh cases
6. Weigh primers
7. Primer/Brass brands (Federal vs CCI vs Remington) (Lapua vs Alpha) etc.
8. Sort bullets.
9. Trim bullet metplat - If I understand correctly this is mostly for long range.
10. Primer seating depth
11. Clean necks/primer pockets between reloads
12. Lube case necks for bullet seating
13. Trim length - For a 6PPC does it matter 1.490" or 1.493" or 1.495" as long as there all the same length?
14. New brass every match? I know that it is preferred to have new brass but with cost constraints would brass that's only been reloaded say 5-10X be ok if they're not showing any adverse signs?
15. Neck turning process. As long as the end result is the specified dimensions, does it matter how you got there?
16. Fire form - 1X or 2X? Before competing with it. I've heard both ways.
    PS.
    Grab the popcorn.
    After all, the small things really matter in life and shooting.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

 

[Thud]

Get Popcorn first. Most important.

 

[Mulligan]

Small Things
I've been here for several years and have read multiple articles (opinions) on how and why to do certain procedures in reloading, but this is my first time posting. Be gentle. Although the articles mostly refer to one process or procedure. I would like to look at all of the small things that go into precision reloading and determine what is the most important to the least important in your opinion. If some have an equal rating on importance, then that's ok. I believe that some of these are vital to shooting accurately but some might just give a "good" feeling. Which in itself can be beneficial.
I shoot short range benchrest but would like to try F-class eventually. I understand that most if not all of my reloading techniques will be the same. During matches I've walked along the reloading areas to see how the "Big Boys" do it. Lots of different ideas. There is a lot of prep that goes on before you ever get to a competition that isn't obvious without a detailed conversation.
Without going into the details on exactly how to do the following procedures, I was wondering what processes I should adopt into my routine. Although I do some of these already, I would like to try more to up my game. I'm the type of person who is willing to try new things and not set in their old ways. Very open minded to new ideas and understands that something that works for one might not work for all. But I don't have the time or money to try every single one of these and shoot targets to see the results. It's also because I'm not a good enough shooter to be able to say that what I did differently caused a better group. Was it my gun handling that day or conditions, etc. Just trying to shorten my learning curve and hopefully tune out some of the noise that doesn't help.
Here are some of the small things I came up with and not necessarily in any specific order. It's not meant to be all inclusive so if you have any others to add that's more than ok. I know that there are lots of other variables to shooting small groups but I'm hoping that with some of these I'll have good brass and bullets to start with. Yes, this is like the which is better (.308 vs 6.5cm), (Chevy vs Ford) debate and will be very opinion-oriented but that's ok because I'm hoping to glean some tidbits of knowledge from your experience.

1. Annealing - Every firing or after a match/day? Some vs not at all.
2. Uniform primer pockets.
3. Debur flash holes
4. Weigh vs throw powder charges
5. Weigh cases
6. Weigh primers
7. Primer/Brass brands (Federal vs CCI vs Remington) (Lapua vs Alpha) etc.
8. Sort bullets.
9. Trim bullet metplat - If I understand correctly this is mostly for long range.
10. Primer seating depth
11. Clean necks/primer pockets between reloads
12. Lube case necks for bullet seating
13. Trim length - For a 6PPC does it matter 1.490" or 1.493" or 1.495" as long as there all the same length?
14. New brass every match? I know that it is preferred to have new brass but with cost constraints would brass that's only been reloaded say 5-10X be ok if they're not showing any adverse signs?
15. Neck turning process. As long as the end result is the specified dimensions, does it matter how you got there?
16. Fire form - 1X or 2X? Before competing with it. I've heard both ways.
    PS.
    Grab the popcorn.
    After all, the small things really matter in life and shooting.
    
    
    
    
    
    

@Court178
You did a lot more than open a can of worms!!!!!

First things first,
There is a world of difference between short range BR and any of the long range games.

Short range BR is a very mature sport. What I am saying is, it is very rare when you see records broken and they are rarely by very much. Which relay you draw, when you decide to start your group, how well you read flags ( not just your own, but all of the flags on the field), knowing when to adjust seating depth or powder as its happening not after two or three agg wreckers. The SR crowd mostly have a refined system.


In contrast, long range benchrest and F-Class are fairly young sports in comparison to SR Benchrest. As an example, the infamous Mr. Tom Mousel broke every heavy gun record in IBS 1000 yard benchrest last year. Not by a little bit, this guy is "In it to win it" and he brought his A game the entire season.

I shoot all three, F-Class, long range BR, and SRBR. I struggle the most when shooting against the older SRBR crowd.

As you know, in the short range game, you can see every shot real time no delays. F-Class has delays, and long range BR you are shooting blind, or mostly blind.

Many of the guys I shoot SR with throw powder charges and win doing so, none of the LR or F-Class shooters I shoot with do this.
Annealing every time works in any of the sports
Weighing cases, with Lapua, I cannot shoot the difference. With several other brands I can.
Sorting bullets, I do for long range.
Weigh primers, I do for long range.
Trim bullets, I test this with every barrel or batch of bullets at long range, I admit, I have never tried at SR.
Case Trim length, it matters is all the sports. I feel you want to stay away from the end of the chamber, you need to leave some room there. Cases do not every grow evenly around the case, one side is always longer than the other.

More later, need to run and do some errands.
CW

 

[Court178]

@Court178
You did a lot more than open a can of worms!!!!!

First things first,
There is a world of difference between short range BR and any of the long range games.

Short range BR is a very mature sport. What I am saying is, it is very rare when you see records broken and they are rarely by very much. Which relay you draw, when you decide to start your group, how well you read flags ( not just your own, but all of the flags on the field), knowing when to adjust seating depth or powder as its happening not after two or three agg wreckers. The SR crowd mostly have a refined system.


In contrast, long range benchrest and F-Class are fairly young sports in comparison to SR Benchrest. As an example, the infamous Mr. Tom Mousel broke every heavy gun record in IBS 1000 yard benchrest last year. Not by a little bit, this guy is "In it to win it" and he brought his A game the entire season.

I shoot all three, F-Class, long range BR, and SRBR. I struggle the most when shooting against the older SRBR crowd.

As you know, in the short range game, you can see every shot real time no delays. F-Class has delays, and long range BR you are shooting blind, or mostly blind.

Many of the guys I shoot SR with throw powder charges and win doing so, none of the LR or F-Class shooters I shoot with do this.
Annealing every time works in any of the sports
Weighing cases, with Lapua, I cannot shoot the difference. With several other brands I can.
Sorting bullets, I do for long range.
Weigh primers, I do for long range.
Trim bullets, I test this with every barrel or batch of bullets at long range, I admit, I have never tried at SR.
Case Trim length, it matters is all the sports. I feel you want to stay away from the end of the chamber, you need to leave some room there. Cases do not every grow evenly around the case, one side is always longer than the other.

More later, need to run and do some errands.
CW

Thanks for the reply. This is what I'm looking for. I realize that I can't compete against the "Big Boys" in skill level. I don't have enough years left to practice enough to attain those levels let alone not having the natural skills to begin with. I'm just hoping to level the playing field a little before the match starts. I don't mean this next statement to takeaway from Mr Mousel's accomplishment in any way at all. But I'm sure his A game included doing all of the small things right. Before he ever got to the line and pulled a trigger. I'm just hoping to learn from his and others experience on what things make a difference at the reloading bench.

 

[Webster]

Thanks for the reply. This is what I'm looking for. I realize that I can't compete against the "Big Boys" in skill level. I don't have enough years left to practice enough to attain those levels let alone not having the natural skills to begin with. I'm just hoping to level the playing field a little before the match starts. I don't mean this next statement to takeaway from Mr Mousel's accomplishment in any way at all. But I'm sure his A game included doing all of the small things right. Before he ever got to the line and pulled a trigger. I'm just hoping to learn from his and others experience on what things make a difference at the reloading bench.

Erik Cortina's videos may be helpful.

 

[Mulligan]

Thanks for the reply. This is what I'm looking for. I realize that I can't compete against the "Big Boys" in skill level. I don't have enough years left to practice enough to attain those levels let alone not having the natural skills to begin with. I'm just hoping to level the playing field a little before the match starts. I don't mean this next statement to takeaway from Mr Mousel's accomplishment in any way at all. But I'm sure his A game included doing all of the small things right. Before he ever got to the line and pulled a trigger. I'm just hoping to learn from his and others experience on what things make a difference at the reloading bench.

@tom leaves nothing on the table. You can bet he has tested them all extensively

CW

 

[tom]

1. Annealing - Every firing or after a match/day? Some vs not at all.
2. Uniform primer pockets.
3. Debur flash holes
4. Weigh vs throw powder charges
5. Weigh cases
6. Weigh primers
7. Primer/Brass brands (Federal vs CCI vs Remington) (Lapua vs Alpha) etc.
8. Sort bullets.
9. Trim bullet metplat - If I understand correctly this is mostly for long range.
10. Primer seating depth
11. Clean necks/primer pockets between reloads
12. Lube case necks for bullet seating
13. Trim length - For a 6PPC does it matter 1.490" or 1.493" or 1.495" as long as there all the same length?
14. New brass every match? I know that it is preferred to have new brass but with cost constraints would brass that's only been reloaded say 5-10X be ok if they're not showing any adverse signs?
15. Neck turning process. As long as the end result is the specified dimensions, does it matter how you got there?
16. Fire form - 1X or 2X? Before competing with it. I've heard both ways.
    PS.
    Grab the popcorn.
    After all, the small things really matter in life and shooting.

Here's where I'm currently at with your list, but I do revisit some of the things occasionally with an always open mind.

1 - I am not at all on anything I've been able to test so far. The wsm with the lapua brass will eventually get tested and is TBD at current time.

2 - not at all currently

3 - not at all currently

4 - weigh

5 - I do segregate new cases by weight. Have also done some volume sorting once formed good...not consistent on the later, as I getting lazy.

6 - yes

7 - definitely important to tune to find the best primer for current ignition and powder choice. I only compare brass if Lapua don't make it, and try to avoid chamberings that they don't.

8 - if I made them, or Kristina or TomE etc etc. Then I sort by oal only. If store bought, I would retire from my job, sort bullets all winter and then hope they hire me back.

9 - always test first all things trimming and or pointing related. Trust your targets, but verify in a few different conditions.

10 - I seat by feel and sometimes check my ammo to prove I'm not that good at it. Hasn't held me back any.

11 - I like burnishing the necks with a nylon brush with patch wrapped around and drill. I clean my pp's once in a blue moon, but not often.

12 - not once the brass has been fired, I use the carbon layer only. New brass yes.

13 - we should, I do if I care.....the laziness is a thing here too.

14 - I've had great luck on one non wildcat with new, but typically I have to form 2 hits for most wildcats. I have BRA brass still competitive at 30+ reloads.

15 - if you're going to do it, do it well. My WSM Clay mentioned last season is a no turn....my first no turn so it's a data point of 1?

16 - I was a 2x guy from starting with Dasher. BRA, or other ackleys likely only need 1x. New cases are worth a test in your standard chambers.

Tom

 

[ELR LVR]

It really REALLY depends on your accuracy expectations
---
First and foremost is avoiding piss poor load development / which is another post
---
then replace any and ALL variables with known constants
---
As for Ammo I will throw out what I think is of higher important just to get into the 1/2" MOA realm and stay there
------------------------------------

1. Debur flash holes
2. Weigh vs throw powder charges - YES WEIGH EVERY CHARGE down to 1/10th gr
3. Weigh cases - make sure all cases have similar neck tension and are within 5 grns of each other
4. Primer/Brass brands - This goes along with Load Dev. you must try every brand of primer
5. I always have good luck though with 3) - CCI BR-2, F-210/ Rem 7-1/2
6. Trim length - Keep your cases within .005" of one another
7. New brass every match? - I am still using Brass from 1999, anneal when needed and keep using it until the necks split
8. Neck turning process. As long as the end result is the specified dimensions, does it matter how you got there? - No, doen't matter how you get there, I don't get why some dudes think they need a $500 neck turning apparatus when a Simple Forster setup off Ebay works wonders and is a mini lathe with all sorts of functions for your brass - I own 3 Forsters
9. Fire form - 3x - THEN - uniform - cut to depth your primer pockets

---
Use good bullets, that are all similar/uniform to each other, and have decent jackets
Sierra being the top of Production bullets - gilding metal jackets don't come apart like soft thin J-4's do.
Nosler is great too - I am recently having excellent luck with Noslers
Hornady being at the bottom and last choice for a decent bullet,
However I will say - their Eld-M's have been performing pretty dang well
But their jackets for the most part are too soft and thin to do what I need them to do
-- which is stay in tact until they reach the target
---
Avoid Federal brass that has small primer pockets
I do fine with LR Federal but the SR stuff such as .223 is too soft, pockets enlarge
---
The rest of the sorting and proceedures are more up to you, to reduce the chance of flyers
or to try to eek out 1/10th's of an inch in your groups and improve consistency
I mean the more we know for a fact our ammo is consistent will only logically go toward aiding accuracy.
---
Might I add to this
You MUST, absolutely MUST have a good quality rifle barrel
Not to suggest a factory barrel can't shoot, but they have inherent stresses built into them from Mfgr processes and will not hold consistency in different temps, (there may be a 1/1000 exception
---
I prefer cut rifled barrels because they always perform out of the gate with no troubleshooting, weird break in proceedures etc etc.
When I use a Krieger or Bartlein, I know that gun will perform which gives us a lot of leeway in load development

 

[JFrank]

When I started shooting mid range , I really hadn’t reloaded at all’ so learning what to test was a big part of the curve along with how to go about testing and load development helped tremendously to build confidence and get me on the right track.
Fast forward a few years…
Moving from mid range to long range added another layer of complexity to the puzzle as the distance is 40% farther but ballistics increase about 60% meaning the little things really show up, for myself, sorting and measuring to the smallest reasonable increment is part of the graduation.

In LRBR the target is king…if it doesn’t show’ it probably doesn’t matter.

I’m fortunate to shoot with guys like @tom that have been willing to share information, it’s important to learn the right way to go about this discipline and to continue to share and elevate the level of competition that drives innovation to set new records.

Jim

 

[Court178]

I appreciate all of the replies. Just to give a little more background on why I asked.

I got into the SRBR game several years ago due to the coaxing of a fellow co-worker. I had Gary O'cock build me a rifle and I've been spoiled ever since. Coming from rifles that shot at best 3/4"-1" moa. This was an eye opening experience. I shot a few competitions and didn't care where I finished since the rifle was so fun to shoot.

Now I want more. I realize the rifle shoots a lot better than what I'm doing and I think that bullet prep is an area that I can improve on. I already have the so-called "right" reloading equipment but feel that I am lacking on the techniques. My groups have gotten better but still have times where I can't explain what happened.

Just trying to take another variable out of the equation.

 

[John Beauchamp]

I appreciate all of the replies. Just to give a little more background on why I asked.

I got into the SRBR game several years ago due to the coaxing of a fellow co-worker. I had Gary O'cock build me a rifle and I've been spoiled ever since. Coming from rifles that shot at best 3/4"-1" moa. This was an eye opening experience. I shot a few competitions and didn't care where I finished since the rifle was so fun to shoot.

Now I want more. I realize the rifle shoots a lot better than what I'm doing and I think that bullet prep is an area that I can improve on. I already have the so-called "right" reloading equipment but feel that I am lacking on the techniques. My groups have gotten better but still have times where I can't explain what happened.

Just trying to take another variable out of the equation.

This is a very common theme, I want to shoot better by being a better reloader. I understand this as it's convenient and can be done at home in your spare time, but the real answer is learning to read flags. It takes a long time and only a few are really good at it but learning where to hold and when to pull the trigger is where winning starts. Thirty years shooting short range score with one world record which has since been surpassed. It's almost impossible to teach wind reading effectively, it takes a lot of shots and much trial and error and then sometimes it just doesn't make sense at all.

 

[D Coots]

If you are into SRBR I suggest you clear your head and go DIRECTLY to u-tube and watch the series of videos Shooting Benchrest With Friends. 3 Hall of Fame shooters sharing their knowledge.

Later

Dave

 

[Court178]

If you are into SRBR I suggest you clear your head and go DIRECTLY to u-tube and watch the series of videos Shooting Benchrest With Friends. 3 Hall of Fame shooters sharing their knowledge.

Later

Dave

I've been watching them. Great information there. I've also talked with Jack Neary personally and found him very willing to share his knowledge.
I would recommend those videos to anybody interested in shooting.

 

[Mulligan]

If you are into SRBR I suggest you clear your head and go DIRECTLY to u-tube and watch the series of videos Shooting Benchrest With Friends. 3 Hall of Fame shooters sharing their knowledge.

Later

Dave

Yep, they will hurt your head if you are stuck on something Uncle Bob's cousin told you years back.

CW

 

[Lynn Brase]

If you have not read it already, the Tony Boyer book is worth a couple of reads!

 

[Court178]

If you have not read it already, the Tony Boyer book is worth a couple of reads!

I bought that book several years ago when I shot next to Larry Costa. I had no idea who Larry Costa was as we carried on a normal conversation and he was very down to earth. When I asked for advice since he was shooting very well he recommended that I buy Boyers book. Thanks for reminding me about that book. I used to refer to it quite often and somehow got away from it and forgot about it.