Small cal cartridge design

[Wolfdog91]

So I know next to nothing about cartridge design. Just a tiny bit to be semi ok in conversation lol,but I'd basically like to try and get a custom lil .17 cal made based off the .22tcm case. Would like it to basically just be a deal where you run .22 TCM brass into a sizing die and boom you have your case . Would also like to have some wiggle room for people making their own cases from .223/5.56. and all this mainly to run in a AR. Not having to neck turn and all that to get functional brass

With all that being said what are some other things that would be beneficial to a small caliber case design? Mabye a different should angle ? Or ?

Also why would be a good person to go to to get help actually getting this made ? Honestly dont need it to be like bench rest quality or anything.

Thanks

 

[L.Sherm]

I would start by figuring out dies and action if its straight 22 TCM you can use a 22 TCM bushing die, if a bushing die isn't available then you can have a regular TCM die turned into a bushing die I did that from a 19 badger for my 17 Badgers.
I would go zero freebore on the reamer and basically just tell either JGS or Manson you want a 22 TCM just necked down to 17 cal.
I would not go over .204 on nk chamber, see if you can get ahold of a 22 TCM case to neck down and see how thick the necks are .003.004 clearance is good on a 17 cal.
Your gonna have to figure out which way you wanna get from 22 to 17 bushings are an option but I prefer forming dies because I make other cases with them.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Making cases from 223 seems a lot of work for little return. The case would need to be cut, formed, trimmed, neck turned, annealed a lot etc. Using TCM brass would be simpler.

But why not look at the 5.7x28 FN as the base cartridge?

 

[Tommie]

Just my personal experience - necking from 22 to 17 in a single step could be a wrestling match.

 

[Evlshnngns]

Wouldn't guess a 17-22tcm case working in an ar15 semi auto rifle. Ejection and feeding problems. Ar9 blowback?

I agree with nz-fclass, how about 5.7mm or 4.6mm?

For simplicity a "20 practical" or similar is worth considering.

I like wildcats more than most..... make crazy things and enjoy what you learn.

 

[MClark]

I think Dave Van Horn has this reamer.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Making cases from 223 seems a lot of work for little return. The case would need to be cut, formed, trimmed, neck turned, annealed a lot etc. Using TCM brass would be simpler.

But why not look at the 5.7x28 FN as the base cartridge?

Couldn't you just working intj the chamber design not to need to neck turn ? I mean that's what KAK did with their .17-5.56. all I dowith that one thing is anneal then go from Lee a gutted lee .223 due to the .17 cal die.
I mean yeah you'd have to cut it but I've been playing with making .22 TCM brass. And it's about as hard as .300 blk once you get the measurements

 

[Wolfdog91]

Wouldn't guess a 17-22tcm case working in an ar15 semi auto rifle. Ejection and feeding problems. Ar9 blowback?

I agree with nz-fclass, how about 5.7mm or 4.6mm?

For simplicity a "20 practical" or similar is worth considering.

I like wildcats more than most..... make crazy things and enjoy what you learn.

Well getting a .22 TCM DI built right now , pistol length gas. So would go that route because the stuff I've don't lately with blow back .22 TCM....yeaaahhh no.
As after as why I want .225/5.56 well. Brass is everywhere and cheap, even for premium stuff. And we'll eveyone has a .223/5.56 BCG already

 

[L.Sherm]

Once you learn to make your own brass from a parent case you dont have to rely on anybody for cases its exactly why I make my own 20VT cases now that 221 fireball are so hard to come by

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I have a 17tcm improved on a bolt gun. When i saw your post on your 22tcm ar I thought it would be neat to do a 17 as a calling rifle. My reamer requires turning necks.

 

[Wolfdog91]

I have a 17tcm improved on a bolt gun. When i saw your post on your 22tcm ar I thought it would be neat to do a 17 as a calling rifle. My reamer requires turning necks.

Would absolutely love to hear more about your lil wild cat if you won't mind ! What's rifle did you end up chambering it in ?

 

[Wolfdog91]

I think Dave Van Horn has this reamer.

I'm sorry but who's that ? Tried looking the name up just kept getting a foot ball coach ,

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Would absolutely love to hear more about your lil wild cat if you won't mind ! What's rifle did you end up chambering it in ?

I did it on an xp-100 with a 14" lilja 1in9 twist barrel.

 

[MClark]

I'm sorry but who's that ? Tried looking the name up just kept getting a foot ball coach ,

THE Gun Shop Gunsmith services Van Horn custom firearms

Full service gunsmithing custom barrels hunting varmint rifles Thompson Contenders Encores G-2 muzzlebrakes wood laminate stocks custom ammo loads

www.dvhcustomguns.com

Emal better than phone. He can’t hear well.
he has a bunch of 17 cal wildcat reamers. I think there is a TCM

 

[357Mag]

I'm sorry but who's that ? Tried looking the name up just kept getting a foot ball coach ,

Wolfdog -

Howdy !

As regards use .223/5.56 brass:
IMHO -I'm not convinced you can avoid the need to either inside neck ream, and/or outside neck turn ? The lower you go on the case' sidewalls... the thicker they get. That trends to make fore-shortened bottle-neck wildcat cases have thicker neck walls after they emerge from the case forming die, than say.... a wildcat formed by necking-down just the neck portion of the parent brass.

As regards the neck-down process:
You'd be best served doing an anneal before cases see the forming die(s). If you want to form the wildcat by runnin' .223 brass directly into a .17 calibre die, you'd be counting on the ability of the brass to neck down into a large" stovepipe ", and thereafter receive a cutoff & trim for length.

*** You may very well find that the necked-down brass' neck
ID is smaller than the desired .17" final cal. That being the circumstance, it may make more sense to do an insde neck ream after case cutoff, while also considering any need for outside neck turning.

I DK how much neck wall thickness you might be contemplating ? An example " 5.6 X 61 Vom Hoffe " case has around .017-.018 neck wall thickness, and a lotta shooters think that's pretty thick; for a neck wall.

I'll try again to send a pic showing the amount of " stovepipe"
I get while forming my wildcat " DEEP 6.

With regards,
357Mag

 

[L.Sherm]

You'd be best served doing an anneal before cases see the forming die(s)

I have found that false in my case making 20VT and 17 Badger brass. To many collapses, when I quite annealing before forming i dont think I've collapsed a case.
After forming before I run them through the FL die I anneal.

 

[357Mag]

I have found that false in my case making 20VT and 17 Badger brass. To many collapses, when I quite annealing before forming i dont think I've collapsed a case.
After forming before I run them through the FL die I anneal.

L. Sherm -

Howdy !
I said what I said, after my experiences on forming 2 different wildcat cases... each formed to fit chambers cut by running a
6mm Remington reamer in " short ". One wildcat is in the short range benchrest capacity range, and is formed on fore-shortened .35Remington ( Remington

 

[L.Sherm]

If it works for you by all means do it, just didn't for me.
When I mean making 20VT cases its from 223, same thing making 17 Badger from 30 Carbine.

 

[357Mag]

All -

Continued from above...

..." Remington "cases.

These second 6mm wildcat, is formed on 7 X 64 Brenneke brass, and has case capacity in the 6XC - 6 Creeemoor range.

On the shorter .35Rem- based case, it proved extremely difficult and almost impossible to get cases to come out of the form die; and lubrication was not the causitive factor. I tried case annealing before using the case foming die...and cases could tapped out handidly. That includes the need to anneal ( lower on the case side walls ) a virgin .35 Remington ( Remington brand ) cases.

On the longer 7 X 64-base wildcat, I needed to both a significant shoulder shove AND co-occuring neck-down from
7mm to 6mm final calibre. On this wildcat ( I call DEEP 6 ),
I have would rather easily and frequently encounter striations on the 25* shoulders, even when slowly adjusting the LEE
6.5 X 55 FL die ( intetnals removed ) down in 90* increments.
Again...I'm talking new, virgin brass ( Norma ). After I gave the cases a good anneal to cover the area of the new shoulder's location, striations on the shoulder pretty much went away,
as-long-as I took my time while adjusting the die downward is just 90* max increments.

Perhaps the use of .223 brass would be a different circumstance, but I remain skeptical.

Apologies form the previous early transmission of my response.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[L.Sherm]

Just because you do it 1 way doesn't mean its the only way same thing with me.