Small base dies: RCBS vs. Redding, which one is tighter?

[commodore]

Do you have a small-base die?

If so who makes it?

How small (tight) does your brass measure after sizing?

*The purpose of these questions it to ascertain whether one manufacturer's small-base dies are tighter than the other. Thank you all for your contribution.

Dave

 

[Bill K]

My small base dies are RCBS. If they are smaller than others at the base, could not tell you. They do the job and cases fit my chambers, so that is what matters too me. In both AR or Bolt actions.

 

[GrocMax]

The Redding FL die #91323 gets mine back to just under .375" at the base, not the datum line .200" from the bolt face. Most new 223 brass is undersized and comes in at .373"-.374".

 

[theallcineyes]

I've reloaded just shy of 100,000 rounds thus far and have no specific complaints. All my rifles are MOA or better out to 600 meters. I'm getting close to replacing dies and have recently discovered small base dies are a thing. Then I started researching and discovered the "full length" resizing dies I've been using apparently aren't actually resizing the full length. This is frustrating mostly from a denotative perspective and also explains some of the chambering issues I've had especially as I reach the 4-5th reload of a given piece of brass. In any event Redding and RCBS seem to be the more expensive (maybe superior) options. So I figured I'd ask.

 

[Doug Beach]

RCBS small base .308 sizes the entire body to a smaller diameter than a Dillon .308 die, which are advertised as making small base dies unnecessary.
About 25,000 rounds through an M1A, using one or the other of the above, without a single malfunction.
No experience with Redding small base.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Chambers, dies and cases vary in size, you need to measure a fired case and a resized case and see how much it reduces the case diameter.

NOTE, in a semi-auto the resized case should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to "spring back" from the chamber walls and extract reliably when fired.

And pausing at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds reduces brass spring back and can also make a difference in case diameter.

I have a standard .223 Lee full length die that will reduce the case diameter more than my RCBS .223 small base die.

Dies have a plus and minus manufacturing tolerance and there is no set answer to your question.

I worked in a sporting goods store and got a discount and decided to get the same answer below. I can also tell you the brand of brass and its hardness and brass spring back will also effect the answer to your question.

Below missing from the photo are Lyman and Lee full length dies. And nothing is written in stone when dealing with dies.

Below Forster .308/7.62 dies.

The same applies to case gauges, the same fired case is in the Dillon and JP Enterprise gauges below. The JP Enterprise gauge is smaller in diameter and closer the SAAMI minimum dimentions than the Dillon gauge. If the resized case passes a plop test in the JP Enterprise gauge it will chamber in any rifle.

 

[nicholst55]

I don't have any empirical data to support which brand is tighter, but it seems like years ago Redding used to boast that you didn't need SB dies if you used their FL dies. They hinted that RCBS SB dies were just a marketing ploy to separate you from your money. Now Redding offers SB dies, also. Hmmm......

 

[dkhunt14]

Most times Small base dies are needed when reamers are tightened up at the .200 line or for AR's where extraction is needed. The dies can vary from each manufacturer, so you really can't get a definite answer. We took 6 different dies for a 6 Dasher from the same manufacturer and they all sized different from one another. You just need to find one that works in your gun or get a custom die. Matt

 

[wjdell]

I always thought that SB Small Base dies were related to three things.
Heat - Dirt and the smaller target type chambers. Especially good for full auto weapons. To be able to keep up reliability while extending the cleaning interval, like in combat. People who shoot a array of different chambers, bolt action, or tighter chambers designed for increased accuracy. I bet when it was decided by the industry to make them they had reasons. There are engineers at Redding, RCBS, Forster and others that know. Why not write a few and ask them what is the reason for this extra clearance and when might this product benefit your weapons. I just asked a Forster tech about compression and die compatibility and got a superb answer. He did not just blow me off.
HAVE FUN

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

My AR's run fine with either RCBS or Redding regular dies. I use a RCBS SB die on range pickup for their first reloading only. Have two barrels with a SAMMI minimum spec chamber cut with my reamer. One on a 700 and the other on my XTC AR. SB is not needed on either one after the first pass with the SB.

Frank

 

[distinguished]

My AR's run fine with either RCBS or Redding regular dies. I use a RCBS SB die on range pickup for their first reloading only. Have two barrels with a SAMMI minimum spec chamber cut with my reamer. One on a 700 and the other on my XTC AR. SB is not needed on either one after the first pass with the SB.

Frank

Wylde chamber will do that. Other tighter chambers like Kreiger's 5.56 match or CLE and you probably won't get away with it.

 

[jelenko]

Wylde chamber will do that. Other tighter chambers like Kreiger's 5.56 match or CLE and you probably won't get away with it.

The CLE chamber is tighter at the base?

 

[Court178]

The top picture was from a article I read on this site. I don't remember who the originator was.
Seeing this got me to thinking about my own situation so I took the same measurements using the dies I had available to me for the 6PPC. Those results are listed below. I shoot SR benchrest and toward the end of a match I was getting a sticky bolt. Several competitors recommended the Redding SB bushing die to me because it sizes the .200 line a little more. After using the Redding SB die I can verify that it does make a difference in my gun.

Initial Readings

Redding SB

Harrells #4

L.E. Wilson

A

1.186​

A

1.184​

A

1.184​

A

1.184​

B

0.441​

B

0.438​

B

0.439​

B

0.439​

C

0.433​

C

0.429​

C

0.43​

C

0.429​

D

0.435​

D

0.552​

D

0.433​

D

0.498​

 

[jelenko]

To the OP - I would ask RCBS and Redding tech support. My experience is they reply to emails within a couple days - usually within 24 hours.

 

[rijndael]

Initial Readings

Redding SB

Harrells #4

L.E. Wilson

A

1.186​

A

1.184​

A

1.184​

A

1.184​

B

0.441​

B

0.438​

B

0.439​

B

0.439​

C

0.433​

C

0.429​

C

0.43​

C

0.429​

D

0.435​

D

0.552​

D

0.433​

D

0.498​

Typo?

 

[Court178]

No. If you look at the drawing that is the distance down the case that my micrometer slides when set at .431
So it shows that it sizes the case down further than the other dies.

 

[Paul's Black Rifles]

To the OP - I would ask RCBS and Redding tech support.

This is a 5 year old thread, maybe the OP has his answer already.
If it matters to you check with the tech support of the companies as you see fit.

Paul

 

[jelenko]

This is a 5 year old thread, maybe the OP has his answer already.
If it matters to you check with the tech support of the companies as you see fit.

Paul

Hmph.
Someone else resurrected the thread.

 

[distinguished]

The CLE chamber is tighter at the base?

Yes. So is the old Krieger 5.56 match chamber. If you look at brass from a Wylde chamber, there will be a noticeable difference.

 

[tsyarnall]

Redding Small Base dies have always worked great for me.