Skip's Shims

[K22]

They are sneaking up on the shoulder set back in small increments.

This is the correct answer.

You can set them up the way Sinclair suggests, i.e., with the .006 or .007 but for me, the .010 works best because I have 6 possible (.008, .007, .006, .005, .004 to .003) options to increase the bump.

I never imagine something so simple could so difficult to comprehend.

 

[K22]

They *might* be depending on how the die and lock ring are initially set. That's my question. How is the die and lock ring set and when do the shims come into play?

Once the initial setup is made with the lock ring, locked in place with the shim that you select as your baseline, then you never have to touch the lock ring again. To change the sizing, you merely replace the baseline shim with another shim.

I chose the .010 shim as my baseline since it provides me more range of bump by replacing it with one of the six other thinner shims.

 

[DShortt]

Once the initial setup is made with the lock ring, locked in place with the shim that you select as your baseline, then you never have to touch the lock ring again. To change the sizing, you merely replace the baseline shim with another shim.

I chose the .010 shim as my baseline since it provides me more range of bump by replacing it with one of the six other thinner shims.

OK, so again. You are setting your die tight against the shell holder with a .010" shim in place. How are you going to achieve more shoulder setback by replacing the .010" shim with a .008" shim when the die and shell holder are already tight against one another?

It's like trying to shove a bolt into a steel bar. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[alf]

I should quit, but I'm not going to......

If you are tight against the shell holder, you have other problems.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

OK, so again. You are setting your die tight against the shell holder with a .010" shim in place. How are you going to achieve more shoulder setback by replacing the .010" shim with a .008" shim when the die and shell holder are already tight against one another?

It's like trying to shove a bolt into a steel bar. Ain't gonna happen.

Sounds right but in reality, it's not. It's very typical to gain a thou or three even with the die "bottomed" out. It just can't be hard bottomed out. And some people simply don't bottom them out. I do prefer for it to bottom out enough to take up the slack in the press linkage but not where it's hard to cam it over. Lets call it firm contact but not solid.

 

[K22]

OK, so again. You are setting your die tight against the shell holder with a .010" shim in place. How are you going to achieve more shoulder setback by replacing the .010" shim with a .008" shim when the die and shell holder are already tight against one another?

It's like trying to shove a bolt into a steel bar. Ain't gonna happen.

I just replied to how to set up the die. Read that and if you still do understand let me know.

As I've said numerous times, I have literally resized thousands of rifle cases using this method to obtain the bump I desire.

With all due respect, you are talking about something you've never used before. I can assure you, the cases is bumped with a thinner shim.

 

[DShortt]

Sounds right but in reality, it's not. It's very typical to gain a thou or three even with the die "bottomed" out. It just can't be hard bottomed out. And some people simply don't bottom them out. I do prefer for it to bottom out enough to take up the slack in the press linkage but not where it's hard to cam it over. Lets call it firm contact but not solid.

 

[DShortt]

Sounds right but in reality, it's not. It's very typical to gain a thou or three even with the die "bottomed" out. It just can't be hard bottomed out. And some people simply don't bottom them out. I do prefer for it to bottom out enough to take up the slack in the press linkage but not where it's hard to cam it over. Lets call it firm contact but not solid.

OK, I guess there's a definition difference going on then.

I'll just say that the way I do my setup and the shim method aren't conducive to one another. Thanks for your insight.

 

[DShortt]

I just replied to how to set up the die. Read that and if you still do understand let me know.

As I've said numerous times, I have literally resized thousands of rifle cases using this method to obtain the bump I desire.

With all due respect, you are talking about something you've never used before. I can assure you, the cases is bumped with a thinner shim.

OK, I think it's mostly a definition difference then. Thanks for your patience. I think it boils down to our methods sound the same but in reality are slightly different.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

OK, I think it's mostly a definition difference then. Thanks for your patience. I think it boils down to our methods sound the same but in reality are slightly different.

Try it if you haven't. I understand what you're saying very well and it's logical but I've never seen it work any other way. There must be room somewhere though because it does change a bit. I can see where some presses might be hard to get any more bump from. My experience is vastly weighted toward a Rockchucker that cams over. I've had others like a Jr press and I only used it for seating bullets. All I know is there is a difference in the amount of bump you'll get with varying pressure to make it cam over. The question is how not if, though. That's where we agree. I don't know how but it does.

 

[DShortt]

Try it if you haven't. I understand what you're saying very well and it's logical but I've never seen it work any other way. There must be room somewhere though because it does change a bit. I can see where some presses might be hard to get any more bump from. My experience is vastly weighted toward a Rockchucker that cams over. I've had others like a Jr press and I only used it for seating bullets. All I know is there is a difference in the amount of bump you'll get with varying pressure to make it cam over. The question is how not if, though. That's where we agree. I don't know how but it does.

Damn. Just when I thought I could put my box of Voo-Doo chicken bones away for good.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Damn. Just when I thought I could put my box of Voo-Doo chicken bones away for good.

I know, right!

 

[AlNyhus]

There's no voodoo involved...just basic mechanicals.

Another reason for shims is to adjust the die as the case gets a bit work hardened and the shoulder won't stay where it's pushed back to. -Al

 

[DShortt]

There's no voodoo involved...just basic mechanicals.

Another reason for shims is to adjust the die as the case gets a bit work hardened and the shoulder won't stay where it's pushed back to. -Al

That makes perfect sense if there's space between the shell holder and die.

If you're starting out with no space how does that work? I Creating negative space?

I never heared a such.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

An added benefit of shims is using the same die for different barrels and or brass. I do this and just add or remove the same shim. there's about .002 difference on them

 

[Bronsin]

I put a .010 shim between the die and shellholder and lock the die ring. Then I remove the die and place the .010 shim under the lock ring. Then just size cases and check bump, changing shims until you get the bump you need. If all the shims are removed and you're bottomed on the shellholder, it's on to plan B.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I put a .010 shim between the die and shellholder and lock the die ring. Then I remove the die and place the .010 shim under the lock ring. Then just size cases and check bump, changing shims until you get the bump you need. If all the shims are removed and you're bottomed on the shellholder, it's on to plan B.

They can work well for setting a false shoulder without changing the die setting, as well.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Setting your die up with a mid size shim allows you to add larger or smaller shims to move the shoulder either way.

Frank

 

[jimmymac]

I never need a solid stop against my shell holder to achieve the shoulder bump I’m looking for. Shims or PMA are used on all my dies. The former is easy and cheap. The latter is easier and costs more.

Using the above makes reloading a breeze because as the brass gets more firings on it, it will not respond to the same die setting. I just pull shims or twist the PMA tool. I’m never, ever messing with a lock ring to make these tiny changes.

 

[muleystalker]

I watched that video. So set the die to make full contact with the shell holder, size a case and check the cartridge base to datum line, or thereabouts, with a comparator. Add shims to reduce shoulder setback if needed. Fine. I get that.

Now, what are these guys doing who start out with .010" or more shims in place to start with? How exactly are they setting up their die?

They are just working backwards, from the method you stated above, so they don't bump a shoulder back too far setting it up, they size a case and measure then remove a shim as needed until they get the bump they want. The only thing the shims are doing is taking the place of screwing the die up or down in the press and having to loosen and tighten the lock ring, the shims are just easier and quicker.