SK pistol match vs pistol match special ?

[grauhanen]

I think, if anything, this info suggests we pay too much for their 'seconds'. It's a great business model ... set out to make Rifle Match and if you make a complete mess of it ... voila, it's Magazine. Talk about polishing a turd.

There really should be disclosure of the grading criteria.

Perhaps it's unfair to say that lower grades are polished turds. They are the inevitable result of the ammo production process. In other words, they make a considerable amount of ammo and only a small portion of it is top-of-line. Most of it is the lesser grade (unless, in the case of SK, Magazine is something else).

That is, again the machine is loaded with components and the results of a run become one lot, but a lot of what? Well, that could be Center X, Midas Plus, or Exact depending on testing.

When any of the match ammo makers produce .22LR ammo, they don't produce ammo lot by lot, determining later exclusively by testing what variety it is. They load the machines with the necessary components -- casings (pre-primed?), bullets, components, lube -- and produce a considerable amount of ammo. This is enough to ultimately produce many lots, the smallest portion of which is top tier, the largest portion of which is bottom.

While the grading methodology is kept secret and never publicly divulged, there's a speculative explanation that might make some sense. It's possible that the ammo makers have a good idea where in the production run the best ammo is typically produced. For example, it may be at the beginning, the very middle, or near the end. To continue with the example, if the best ammo is usually found at the middle of the production run, it becomes the top graded variety.

If it is like this, or something similar, Lapua, for example, may expect to identify certain segments of the production run as X-Act, Midas +, and Center X. The smallest part would be X-Act, the largest CX. No actual testing by means of verifying a grade by shooting in a test tunnel would be necessary.

In other words, grading may be achieved by a process other than actual performance. If it is graded in a way such as this, it wouldn't necessarily guarantee that all "higher" grades are in fact better performing with better ES and SD than all "lesser" grades. It would explain why not all lots of X-Act outperform all lots of Center X.

 

[grauhanen]

As I pointed out to Glenn, if we were to believe all that the gun mags write every rifle, they review test will be out shooting everything and is the best. I am curious how many LR rimfire competitors are using that SK LR

No one should ever believe all that any review says about anything, including firearms and ammo.

What Esterline said about SK grading had nothing whatsoever to do with the review itself. His words were quoted by the reviewer. They could have be quoted and reproduced in another context that wasn't a review.

In other words, just because Esterline's words appeared in a review doesn't make them wrong. If he's wrong, it's because he didn't get his facts right, not because his words appeared in a review.

 

[flatlander]

As odd as it seems, in my experience while lot testing, I've typically tested over a dozen lots of SK Rifle Match & Lapua Center-X before finding a lot of either that I feel is worth buying in case quantities. What I'd like to know is whether they keep more good lots in Europe and send us here in the U.S. & Canada the rest (with a few really good lots mixed in).

Since 2016, my testing has all been done in either custom barreled 40X or Vudoo repeaters. Only recently (in the past year) have I started using tuners, and so far, the lots of SK & Lapua that I've found to shoot best in rifles w/o a tuner are also the ones that perform best with a tuner. That's not saying much, because I haven't bought much untested ammo in quantity recently.

 

[grauhanen]

What I'd like to know is whether they keep more good lots in Europe and send us here in the U.S. & Canada the rest (with a few really good lots mixed in).

Only recently (in the past year) have I started using tuners, and so far, the lots of SK & Lapua that I've found to shoot best in rifles w/o a tuner are also the ones that perform best with a tuner.

The observation that the lots that shoot best without a tuner are also the best with tuner is to be expected. Tuners serve their fundamental function best when they improve what's already good. Shooters must disabuse themselves of any notion that tuners turn indifferent or inconsistent ammo into something entirely different (i.e. into good ammo) because they don't.

The question of whether ammo makers keep more good lots in Europe and send North Americans "the rest (with a few really good lots mixed in)" may have validity.

If the speculative explanation offered earlier has any merit, after decades of .22LR match ammo making, the match ammo makers have a good idea where in the production run they should expect the best lots to be produced. These can be identified and confirmed by further testing where necessary. These "best lots" can be recommended to certain buyers, whether by national origin, particular team, or other criteria.

If it works this way, it wouldn't mean that certain shooters always get the vast majority of the best lots, only that they have access to them, perhaps before anyone else. Good lots of all makes of ammo get shipped everywhere, but their numbers get diluted if most of the other lots are shipped with them.

 

[flatlander]

The observation that the lots that shoot best without a tuner are also the best with tuner is to be expected. Tuners serve their fundamental function best when they improve what's already good. Shooters must disabuse themselves of any notion that tuners turn indifferent or inconsistent ammo into something entirely different (i.e. into good ammo) because they don't.

Agreed, actually pretty obvious/redundant statement on my part. However, I've still got part of a case of Wolf Match Extra purchased 15+yrs ago that's been a real disappointment. At that period in time, we could buy Wolf Match Target/Match Extra without doing lot testing and still expect to get ammo that shot quite well. This fact was noted on one or two smallbore forums, and I routinely purchased quantities of both grades from Champions Choice with very good results. But this lot of Match Extra was an exception, and I've never found a rifle that it shot acceptably in. Rather than take it out and get rid of it by just blasting/plinking, I need to try it in my oldest Vudoo V-22, which I barreled with a Krieger blank in the fall of 2017, and which now wears a Pro-X tuner on its 22" sendero contour bbl. I wouldn't expect the tuner to turn crap into gold, but if it provided even a modest improvement in grouping accuracy, at least I could use it up in practice drills.

 

[DGP4]

In my Anschutz, SK Standard Plus has shot better than any other SK ammo, including SK Rifle Match. So, I am not surprised by what Esterline said. Every lot of any .22 ammo is going to shoot differently and one .22 rifle may shoot some specific brand better than another. Such is the nature of the .22LR universe.

 

[targetsmoker]

In my Anschutz, SK Standard Plus has shot better than any other SK ammo, including SK Rifle Match. So, I am not surprised by what Esterline said. Every lot of any .22 ammo is going to shoot differently and one .22 rifle may shoot some specific brand better than another. Such is the nature of the .22LR universe.

Exactly. so the next lot of standard plus you try may not be the better than the next lot of rifle match.

 

[DGP4]

That

Exactly. so the next lot of standard plus you try may not be the better than the next lot of rifle match.

Thats why I buy a case if it shoots well

 

[VLNBYR]

One of the big ammo dealers once told me he didn't care what lots the importer sent him because eventually they all would shoot well in somebody's rifle.

 

[grauhanen]

Even if it doesn't shoot well in somebody's rifle, it will eventually sell. The dealer has only to wait for a random buyer to ask if there's any "Brand A" left and he can ship whatever lot of Brand A he wants to move, regardless of how it shoots. Should the buyer find the ammo is a poor performer, he'll say "My rifle doesn't like Brand A any longer."