SK pistol match vs pistol match special ?
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
pistol match is subsonic. match special is faster. if you are shooting a pistol they both may be subsonic.
The SK website shows the match special MV is 17 fps faster from a 5.9" barrel. If you can find some try both.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
In reality, only shooting them both in your rifle will provide the answer. what will shoot good in one rifle may be shotgun ammo in another.
Lee
SK loads a machine with components and turns the crank. The result is subjected to testing and if it is top drawer it becomes Rifle Match . If it doesn't make the cut it is SK Standard Plus. If it doesn't make that cut it is Pistol Match. The same components with just a bit more powder and you have Long Range Match, Biathlon Sport and Pistol Match Special. The short barrel and lesser requirements lets them unload the worst of it without drawing too much notice to it's shortcomings.
I have yet to complete testing in my rifles but I will never again buy the bottom rung stuff. I pay a bit more for the Rifle Match but the next step up for me is CenterX, which I pay 60 percent more for.
I have yet to complete testing in my rifles but I will never again buy the bottom rung stuff. I pay a bit more for the Rifle Match but the next step up for me is CenterX, which I pay 60 percent more for.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Is this your opinion or actual fact? I can't see how std+ is graded higher than PM.
Lee
As shooters are aware, different lots of any SK variety -- whether SK Standard Plus or SK Pistol Match -- may not perform equally. Some will be better than others regardless of the variety.
Nevertheless, there may be a practical reason why one is graded "higher" than another. While Pistol Match is physically and visually indistinguishable from other SK standard velocity rounds, it's ostensibly graded for pistol shooting. However pistol shooting differs from other .22LR shooting, the expectations for accuracy performance is probably different. In other words, perhaps pistol "accuracy" requirements aren't expected to be the same as those for rifles.
Regardless, the information presented by Williwaw is not simply his opinion. It's the explanation offered by Geoff Esterline, director of marketing for Capstone Precision, U.S. distributor of SK ammo. Of course, while he ought to know, he could be wrong and SK standard velocity pistol ammo could be graded "higher" than Standard Plus.
For the full text of the article in which the above exerpt appears, see https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/cz-usa-model-457-22-lr/365081
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Here is what is questionable the guy is from Capstone Marketing and not from LAPUA R&D product development.As shooters are aware, different lots of any SK variety -- whether SK Standard Plus or SK Pistol Match -- may not perform equally. Some will be better than others regardless of the variety.
Nevertheless, there may be a practical reason why one is graded "higher" than another. While Pistol Match is physically and visually indistinguishable from other SK standard velocity rounds, it's ostensibly graded for pistol shooting. However pistol shooting differs from other .22LR shooting, the expectations for accuracy performance is probably different. In other words, perhaps pistol "accuracy" requirements aren't expected to be the same as those for rifles.
Regardless, the information presented by Williwaw is not simply his opinion. It's the explanation offered by Geoff Esterline, director of marketing for Capstone Precision, U.S. distributor of SK ammo. Of course, while he ought to know, he could be wrong and SK standard velocity pistol ammo could be graded "higher" than Standard Plus.
For the full text of the article in which the above exerpt appears, see https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/cz-usa-model-457-22-lr/365081
in other words, he is a salesman! the reason I also question this, is because why are they using an RTB fixture to test product runs? when the test centers are not doing the same? they stop RTB testing, and this is coming from the test center in Mesa. they have been locking the testing vise, so it won't RTB.
If gun magazine articles are all the information we can judge by, then every gun they review is the best!
hey but what do I know right, I only shoot the stuff!
Lee
I read about how well SK Pistol Match was shooting for several guys on an online forum several years ago, and so decided to buy some of it to test in my custom barreled 40X repeaters. I bought 2-box samples of six lots of PM, and was pretty amazed to find that five of those six lots shot very well. In fact, the hardest part was figuring out which one of them was the best - when I did settle on one lot, I bought a case of it. Since then, I've found outstanding lots of SK Rifle Match & Lapua Center-X, and bought a couple of cases of each - but I had to test over a dozen lots of each of those grades to find one good enough to buy in quantity. I've also 'stumbled' onto a couple of excellent lots of SK Std+, and bought cases of it when I realized how good it was. Sure, it produced a few more fliers than Rifle Match & Center-X, but for the price, I'd buy multiple cases of it again today if I only had the chance...it's good stuff for practice, and allowed me to save back the really good lots of Rifle Match & Center-X for matches, while still being able to shoot very good ammo on an every-day basis. Sadly, the days of being able to order in lot samples seems to be a thing of the past - and I'm not at all crazy about spending the $$$ to buy a full case of ammo that I've not been able to lot test first.
If the standards for pistol ammo normally exceed those for rifle ammo, what Esterline said about how SK grades ammo may sound inconvenient and wrong.
It's worth noting that he can't be wrong because he's Capstone's director of marketing. Furthermore, he can't be mistaken because what he said was quoted in a magazine article that reviewed a rifle.
If Esterline is wrong, it's because it's with regard to facts.
Regarding how SK tests its products, the information you offer is interesting, but perhaps not definitive. Is SK testing different from that for Lapua .22LR ammos, which are produced at the same ammo making site in Schönebeck, Germany?
What information can be added to the testing facility information provided by SK (see below)?
Hi Lee,
Certainly not opinion, likely a fact. It is what I believe and I shared it because it may be useful information that I think might guide a thoughtful persons decisions.
Equally, I hope it is not news to anyone that Lapua uses a similar approach in their shop. That is, again the machine is loaded with components and the results of a run become one lot, but a lot of what? Well, that could be Center X, Midas Plus, or Exact depending on testing.
Can't help you with your difficulty seeing how Standard Plus could on average yield higher test results than Pistol Match. I see it as the nature of the game, 22LR that is.
I had a case of Standard Plus that out shot anything I have ever had. You know that I'm new to this but it met my accuracy benchmarks better than six different lots of Center X and one of Eley Match that I have had at least a brick of for testing. That did not convince me that my rifle likes Standard Plus. I took it as an indication that I was on to something. I have three cases of both Standard Plus and three of Rifle Match. When they are gone I may have an opinion as to whether or not it is worth it to ME to pay the premium.
Thanks for putting that out there for me. I'd have never found it. Appreciated.
I think, if anything, this info suggests we pay too much for their 'seconds'. It's a great business model ... set out to make Rifle Match and if you make a complete mess of it ... voila, it's Magazine. Talk about polishing a turd.
There really should be disclosure of the grading criteria.
Just to share. I live in northern Canada and I have no practical way to get ammo except to buy it multiple cases at a time, untested. Since I graduated from bulk ammo from Walmart that is all I've done.
I could go to the Eley Testing Center near Calgary but they only do Tenex and with the cost of a trip the price is beyond my means. Further, in my opinion the Lapua/SK lube fares better in the cold. My cut off for shooting is 0F.
So I tune for each lot, shoot without a tuner to confirm it's doing something, and then I shoot up the rest.
I keep records of what scores and statistics I'm getting and try like the devil to improve them as the case disappears. I've established my own accuracy benchmarks and of course I mostly don't meet them. I had an amazing lot of Standard Plus that did an average to center of .133 inches with an SD of .064. That was 40 shots at fifty using the F Class target. So it is possible to work hard and have a lot of fun with whatever you have, just shoot.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
If the standards for pistol ammo normally exceed those for rifle ammo, what Esterline said about how SK grades ammo may sound inconvenient and wrong.
It's worth noting that he can't be wrong because he's Capstone's director of marketing. Furthermore, he can't be mistaken because what he said was quoted in a magazine article that reviewed a rifle.
If Esterline is wrong, it's because it's with regard to facts.
Regarding how SK tests its products, the information you offer is interesting, but perhaps not definitive. Is SK testing different from that for Lapua .22LR ammos, which are produced at the same ammo making site in Schönebeck, Germany?
What information can be added to the testing facility information provided by SK (see below)?
Williwaw,
I just find it surprising that they grade it that way. I have never had good results with Std.+ I have heard stories and actually shot some in a friend's Anschutz, but it always has a dropper for me. however, with PM I have had way better results, but in the long run I still can't say it is better than any CX I have shot. but on the other hand, I have shot 4 different lots of X-act and it never shot well for me. even my two trips to Lapua have never found any Midas+ that shot better than any CX, I guess I am lucky that I can shoot CX and get great results. FWIW I found Pistol King to shoot really good, my best match score of 250-21X was shot with a random lot of it.
As I pointed out to Glenn, if we were to believe all that the gun mags write every rifle, they review test will be out shooting everything and is the best. I am curious how many LR rimfire competitors are using that SK LR
Lee
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