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Sizing Dies

I own zero Body dies and only FL Bushing dies except couple small cal dies.
I've never seen a benefit to a body die yet and I can get my stuff to shoot pretty Dang good. Guys that shoot honed FL dies are under the assumption that nk tension dont matter, well! It does the farther out you shoot.
There a few 1,000 BR shooters that use Bushing only to I know that do well, thats were im at on my LR hunting guns
 
If you want some versatility, a bushing fls die can give you that, in that it is a body die, just that it uses the bushing to do the neck. I also have bushing neck bump and regular neck dies for use with new brass mostly, mainly to save effort on lubing and cleaning til they are fireformed. Bushings just allow me to be lazy at times in experimenting with neck tensions as well. I have mandrels for the calibers I own, I use them the bulk of the time for neck tension, or sizing with two step ones for cast bullets, and I have regular FLS dies I use with them as well. Depends mostly on what gun and what experiment I feel like trying on it as to what I use. Some guns I just neck size and bump every 4th or 5th load. Some guns get nothing but FLS. KIds and their toys ya know....
 
None of this is written in stone, and any die, or combo of dies, can produce low runout sized cases. I have used Wilson neck dies in conjunction with Redding body dies for several rifles very successfully for many years. I use FL bushing dies on several other rifles. Bottom line is that I test the performance of dies with a runout gauge of my own making, and come up with a setup that works. There is no absolute right or wrong answer to this question.
 
On a progressive press, I do decapping die in station one, Redding competition neck die with SAC bushing in station two, Cortina expander mandrel die in three, and body die in four. It loads very straight ammo and I get consistent shoulder bump with this method. What I like is that I can swap bushings when necessary as the brass ages and I don't have to size the full neck. My press runs very smooth as well.
 
I'm also 1 of these guys who only uses a Redding body die and a LEE collet die, only for my bolt guns! quick easy and done, I get less than 1k runout consistent neck tension and very good groups, I don't hunt just punch paper, IMO using these types of dies is as simple as it gets! and yields excellent results even from a factory barrel, if you have all your ducks in a row with the seating depth powder charge and bullets the barrel likes? and a barrel that shoots? this combo should work well for anybody who is building consistent ammo. JMO
 
Better TIR is obtained by using a full-length non-bushing die with the neck honed to the desired diameter. A bushing doesn't self-center well unless the case mouths are square and the neck is sized no more than 0.003"; not useful unless you have a tight-neck chamber or are willing to size multiple times with progressively smaller bushings.
A good quality bushing NOT locked down in a high quality full length bushing die can produce great ammo capable of winning championships, if it couldn’t I wouldn’t have the hardware to show for it. But your statement of a custom full length non bushing die with a honed neck is a fantastic option as well, I’d probably argue even better.
Dave
 
I own zero Body dies and only FL Bushing dies except couple small cal dies.
I've never seen a benefit to a body die yet and I can get my stuff to shoot pretty Dang good. Guys that shoot honed FL dies are under the assumption that nk tension dont matter, well! It does the farther out you shoot.
There a few 1,000 BR shooters that use Bushing only to I know that do well, thats were im at on my LR hunting guns
To me, that is the down side of a custom honed neck die, you can’t adjust the neck “tension”.
 
I own zero Body dies and only FL Bushing dies except couple small cal dies.
I've never seen a benefit to a body die yet and I can get my stuff to shoot pretty Dang good. Guys that shoot honed FL dies are under the assumption that nk tension dont matter, well! It does the farther out you shoot.
There a few 1,000 BR shooters that use Bushing only to I know that do well, thats were im at on my LR hunting guns
I've never heard that as a reason for using honed dies. The only reason I've heard, and the reason I use honed dies is to reduce the amount the neck is sized compared to NON-HONED DIES. Standard dies reduce the neck diameter more than is needed in most cases. Why over work the case neck unnecessarily?

After sizing (with a standard die or a honed die) I use a mandrel.
 
I've never heard that as a reason for using honed dies. The only reason I've heard, and the reason I use honed dies is to reduce the amount the neck is sized compared to NON-HONED DIES. Standard dies reduce the neck diameter more than is needed in most cases. Why over work the case neck unnecessarily?

After sizing (with a standard die or a honed die) I use a mandrel.
On a honed die how to you change neck " tension" after sizing?
Say you have .002 nk tension after sizing and you wanna test .003?, .004 ect
 
On a honed die how to you change neck " tension" after sizing?
Say you have .002 nk tension after sizing and you wanna test .003?, .004 ect
I use a mandrel. Then I use a pin gauge to check neck I.D. My .223 FL die is .243". This gives my room to use whatever mandrel (for .003", .004", etc) I want to give me the nk tension I want. But it doesn't squeeze the neck as small as a factory, non-honed die.
 
To me, that is the down side of a custom honed neck die, you can’t adjust the neck “tension”.
I have a few guns in calibers where there are no bushing dies available for them. I can decrease my neck tension by turning the necks - but no way to go the other direction. I think that when care is used to get square, properly chamfered necks and not locking that bushing down - a bushing die properly fit for the chamber can be pretty darned good. I use three different bushings alone when loading one particular gun, depending on the bullet I'm using.

Getting "sets" made of honed dies to accommodate each bullet would a PIT. One would first want a bushing die to even find out what worked best for tension - or they would be tossing a lot of honed dies as experiments.
 
I use a mandrel. Then I use a pin gauge to check neck I.D. My .223 FL die is .243". This gives my room to use whatever mandrel (for .003", .004", etc) I want to give me the nk tension I want. But it doesn't squeeze the neck as small as a factory, non-honed die.
Well then yours isn't honed to a specific desired dia.
All non honed dies ive come across have sized the neck .004 under bullet dia.
Only exception was a 20VT die which was .006
 
Well then yours isn't honed to a specific desired dia.
All non honed dies ive come across have sized the neck .004 under bullet dia.
Only exception was a 20VT die which was .006
No, I didn't have it honed to a specific size because I use brass that might have slightly different neck thickness. And I was going to use a mandrel to give me the exact I.D. that I want. If I used just one lot of brass with consistent neck thickness I would get a die honed to give me the finished I.D.
 
Have a question on sizing dies. Curious if anyone has experimented with using a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck sizing die (with bushing) to size the neck versus using a FL sizing die with a bushing and the results they found? Does one option produce more consistent sizing? If so, in what respect?
I have seen no difference either way with two different 30BR chambered rifles based on my targets at 100 & 200 yards and match scores.

I do use multiple pin gauges to identify neck/bullet interference fit (not neck tension) to segregate and adjust by using a different neck bushing or expander mandrel.

Just my .02
Tim
 
I've never heard that as a reason for using honed dies. The only reason I've heard, and the reason I use honed dies is to reduce the amount the neck is sized compared to NON-HONED DIES. Standard dies reduce the neck diameter more than is needed in most cases. Why over work the case neck unnecessarily?

After sizing (with a standard die or a honed die) I use a mandrel.
You could do exactly the same with a full length bushing die by changing the bushing diameter.
Dave
 
I have a few guns in calibers where there are no bushing dies available for them. I can decrease my neck tension by turning the necks - but no way to go the other direction. I think that when care is used to get square, properly chamfered necks and not locking that bushing down - a bushing die properly fit for the chamber can be pretty darned good. I use three different bushings alone when loading one particular gun, depending on the bullet I'm using.

Getting "sets" made of honed dies to accommodate each bullet would a PIT. One would first want a bushing die to even find out what worked best for tension - or they would be tossing a lot of honed dies as experiments.
No argument from me, all I use are FL bushing dies.
 
Those neck insert dies that I mentioned in post #24 from 21st century have been discussed here before as a way to increase neck tension after full length sizing.
 

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