Sizing Dies

[454bore]

Have a question on sizing dies. Curious if anyone has experimented with using a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck sizing die (with bushing) to size the neck versus using a FL sizing die with a bushing and the results they found? Does one option produce more consistent sizing? If so, in what respect?

 

[Straightshooter1]

Have a question on sizing dies. Curious if anyone has experimented with using a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck sizing die (with bushing) to size the neck versus using a FL sizing die with a bushing and the results they found? Does one option produce more consistent sizing? If so, in what respect?

I'm simply not a fan of any bushing sizing dies, as I just never liked that I couldn't get good consistent neck TIR's with them. But I do have the Forster Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die that I use without the bushings or the expander ball to bump the shoulders whenever I neck size with a Lee Collet Die and don't size the body. This Forster dies does a really nice job of just bumping the shoulders and I get very consistent results (but note that I do anneal after every firing regardless of the die I use).

That process of neck sizing with the collet die and then bumping the the neck works really well for me; better than any of the various busing sizing dies I've tried. But, I find it's not quite as good as a good FL sizing die, without the expander ball, then expanding with an expander mandrel. And this works best when I'm using a FL sizing die that's been reamed so that it doesn't constrict the neck down as much as the factory die does. . . .way more consistent results for shoulder bumps, neck tensions and TIR's.

Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Dies – Forster Products

Order according to the profile of the specific cartridge.

www.forsterproducts.com

BTW: I'm using the Forster Co-Ax press and most recently I've got the Nexus press that's works very well with all the dies I have.

 

[Dave M.]

I’m not sure what the advantage of doing it on two separate dies over two separate operations, versus one precision custom FL bushing die that is cut from a sizing reamer that matches the chamber.

Dave

 

[AWS]

I do it that way but only because I bought a body die and neck bushing die really cheap. I do use competition shell holders with the body die to get a hard stop and not have to adjust the die. Hard stop is always the same set back. My hunting guns use a standard FL die with a comp shell holder for a hard stop.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

When I decided to put together a 20p AR upper, I purchased 300 LC brass sized/ready to load. I had picked up a Redding bushing neck die on clearance(223) already had a RCBS 223 fl standard die. So I size the body(shoulder set back 0.003-0.004 for winter use) than the neck sizing for my 20p.

 

[ronemus]

Better TIR is obtained by using a full-length non-bushing die with the neck honed to the desired diameter. A bushing doesn't self-center well unless the case mouths are square and the neck is sized no more than 0.003"; not useful unless you have a tight-neck chamber or are willing to size multiple times with progressively smaller bushings.

 

[R&B]

Have a question on sizing dies. Curious if anyone has experimented with using a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck sizing die (with bushing) to size the neck versus using a FL sizing die with a bushing and the results they found? Does one option produce more consistent sizing? If so, in what respect?

Back in the day many of the short range bench rest shooters would only neck size. I still do sometimes. I use L.E. Wilson neck sizing dies and an arbor press. There are different methods for neck sizing. I still use Lee collet dies to neck size some of my brass. When I use this method I will sometimes use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back. RCBS still makes some neck sizing only dies that don't use neck sizing bushings. The only issue is you can't play around with neck tension and they use an expander-decapping pin.

I don't like pulling the expander-decapper back through the neck when using a full length sizing die. Many others are doing what I do and full length size and use a neck sizing mandrel and die to size the neck ( I remove the expander- decapping pin from the F.L sizing die). The neck tension seems to be more consistent for me when using a mandrel to size the neck. This will also solve the run-out issue if you have any from pulling the expander ball back through the neck.

There is more than one way to size brass. Don't be afraid to contact some of the die manufacturers to get some suggestions. Find a process that will work for you. Many methods reloaders use are based on personal preference with a healthy dose of trial and error.

Experience is always the best teacher.


-R&B

 

[6BRA]

Stacked tolerances...NO!

 

[TTE]

What is

TIR

 

[ronemus]

What is

Total Indicator Runout

 

[jackieschmidt]

I made my own version of the Redding S Die for my 30BR and it makes very consistent rounds.

 

[Fast14riot]

I use a body die (FL bushing die w/o bushing) and size the neck with a Lee collet neck die in several chamberings. I've found really consistent neck tension and low runout.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Have a question on sizing dies. Curious if anyone has experimented with using a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck sizing die (with bushing) to size the neck versus using a FL sizing die with a bushing and the results they found? Does one option produce more consistent sizing? If so, in what respect?

Redding Body die and Lee collet for the neck is one of my favorite combinations.

 

[243winxb]

I use a body die (FL bushing die w/o bushing) and size the neck with a Lee collet neck die in several chamberings. I've found really consistent neck tension and low runout.

I tried this. The Redding type S fl bushing die was slightly more accurate in 243 Win. The Lee collet is more work, for me.

Only the target knows.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I made my own version of the Redding S Die for my 30BR and it makes very consistent rounds.

Please tell the details on how you did this.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

To keep it SS for my non-competitive needs I use regular Forster dies with the high set expander ball stem( I have also replaced Redding and RCBS dies with this stem).
I trim brass some but never have seen a donut.

 

[Andy Work]

Better TIR is obtained by using a full-length non-bushing die with the neck honed to the desired diameter.

That's what I have found as well.

 

[K22]

If you are seeking the ultimate in precision then I would listen to those that pursue this goal, such as benchrest shooters, etc.

If you are like me, seeking consistent varmint / predator hunting level precision in the .5's to .7's approximate range then I can share with you my experience.

I found that standard F/L dies work just fine with the caveat that you polish the expander button to reduce drag of the neck. I took it one set further and have a series of expander assemblies, sized in .001" diameter increments to I can customize the neck tension. A simple and poor man's approach to bushings.

Also, the key is to start with virgin case of the same brand and lot and rotate their use, only F/L sizing enough to produce optimum sizing.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I really like the Redding Body die. I use so many different brands of brass and some are not very consistent when sizing. So I set my sizing die to size to just bump the shoulder back a very little. Some just need a little more bump and the Redding Body Die is a handy tool to have. Very adjustable.

 

[CloudNein]

If you're just going to push the shoulder back in a separate operation I'd forgo the individual neck bushing die and use the Lee neck collet sizing die. It's a fantastic design, is cheap, and you can order custom mandrels if the neck isn't sized to your specification. Bushings introduced their own problems, and the cost goes up in all regards. Both of your methods stated should be consistent, assuming quality brass and annealing, but issues can pop up like I specify below.

I've experimented with a variety of sizing options at this point. I'll just give you my experience up to this point in time.

- A full length sizing die with bushing works fine, if you follow it up with a expander mandrel. If you're turning necks the general consensus is that you don't need the mandrel. I don't turn necks, yet. My group sizes say I don't need to.

- The Forster Bushing bump sizing die gave me great groups , but ONLY if I used my standard method of using the bushing then following it up with the expander mandrel. Just pushing back the shoulder sans bushing and using the Lee neck collet sizing die resulted in the shoulder being pushed back an extra ~.002" and poor groups. I could possible size the neck first then body and see.

- I still think a Redding body die + Lee neck collet die is the best bang for your buck by far. I'll use this combo and even follow it up with the Wilson expander mandrel if loading for super precision.

-I've got a Forster Honed full length sizing die for my 22 ARC build coming any time now, if Forster hasn't forgotten about my order. Assuming my brass is consistent this +, once again, an expander mandrel for final neck sizing, should result in the best of everything. In addition, Forster uses a different expander ball configuration for their sizing dies, the case is still supported when the ball is doing it's thing, with better runout than the other manufacturers.

So basically, I love my expander mandrels. I guess that's the real takeaway.