Sizing die brass shavings

[CZSandW]

I think, like most others, the case mouth is the likely problem.

You have multiple headstamps, does it do it on one or all?

Only on new, or once fired also?

You have a wide range of thickness, if you chamfer and de-burr, does this variation change?

I am wondering if the thicker brass, is actually a burr or turned edge on the mouth of the case, that is being pushed off as the case enters the die. I would expect that to be on a single headstamp and probably only new brass.

it does it on new Starline and Remington and on once fired federal and Remington.
this morning I chamfered a couple cases and it still makes shavings.

 

[CZSandW]

Best thing is to return dies for new ones and include pictures but eliminate all operator variables, sizing is fairly straightforward if you're doing everything right then it's the dies in my opinion.

My 2 cent opinion but with Biden's inflation it's now 5 cent.

i agree with you! Gonna email Hornady for a return authorization again

 

[CZSandW]

Been reloading 38 Special since 1966. Have never trimmed one or chamfered the case mouths. Same with 357, 9mm, 40 S&W, 45LC, 45ACP and 41 Mag. Something is either wrong with the die or it is adjusted wrong!

Is it a straight 38 only die or a 38 and 357 die?

Try backing the die body out a 1/4 turn, maybe its bottoming out at the top of the die ?

Frank

It’s a .38/.357 die. This morning I tried raising the case only about 1/2” into the die and removing and it made small shavings. I’m gonna return the die with lots of photos and videos.

 

[CZSandW]

Absolutely cases need to be chamfered before the initial sizing then after each time you trim the cases.

Chamber both the inside and outside. After chambering, run you finger over the outside of the case opening - it should be smooth.

I tried chamfering this morning and still made shavings. I’m gonna return the die.

 

[CZSandW]

I really appreciate all of your suggestions, comments, and ideas. They really helped me to look more closely at the issue(s). At this point I will be returning the die to Hornady with more photos and videos.
what is the procedure on this forum to close out a thread?

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

My preferred way is for the op to tell us what fixed his problem. Most of the time, the "one time" posters, when they get their problem fixed, they just disappear leaving those who tried to help hanging!

One last thing, would you mind measuring the outside diameter of one of your sized cases, I'm just curious after seeing the recently posted pic of the bottom of your die. Looks like the top of the sizing insert may be squared off with a fairly sharp top inside edge. After the case goes in past the top of the insert it expands back in diameter a .001 or 2, then when withdrawn the sharp edge scrapes the brass producing the shavings. If possible, run a case in just so the mouth stays in the insert and does not go above it. If I'm right there should be no shaving.

Thanks
Frank

 

[CZSandW]

My preferred way is for the op to tell us what fixed his problem. Most of the time, the "one time" posters, when they get their problem fixed, they just disappear leaving those who tried to help hanging!

One last thing, would you mind measuring the outside diameter of one of your sized cases, I'm just curious after seeing the recently posted pic of the bottom of your die. Looks like the top of the sizing insert may be squared off with a fairly sharp top inside edge. After the case goes in past the top of the insert it expands back in diameter a .001 or 2, then when withdrawn the sharp edge scrapes the brass producing the shavings. If possible, run a case in just so the mouth stays in the insert and does not go above it. If I'm right there should be no shaving.

Thanks
Frank

Hi Frank
yes, I’m one of those one time posters…so far.
When I looked at all the various forums I’m very happy that I joined this one because of all the constructive comments and questions which made me consider things that you all suggested.
I measured the OD of 10 case mouths after sizing. Very uniform from 0.3735 to 0.3740.
I’ve checked the case holder and it is square and aligned as it sits secured on the top of the ram. The case enters the die squarely and doesn’t shift when the ram is raised. The ram raises straight up and there isn’t any movement sideways, just straight up and down. I’ve chamfered the case mouth slightly but that didnt stop making the shavings. I verified the die is at the right depth in the press.
I think you are right and have now come to the same assumption as you; that the top inside edge of the TN insert is scraping off the shavings when the case is lowered out of the die. I did try putting the case into the die but not so far as to go beyond the inside edge of the TN insert, and that did not result in any shavings at all. The top inside edge of the insert is very smooth, (no fibers pulled off of a cotton swab) but it may have a sharp edge. There is no definite fix for the problem yet, that will happen after the die manufacturer reevaluates (for a second time) And will take several weeks until any further info can be attained.
thanks!
Steve

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Hi Frank
yes, I’m one of those one time posters…so far.
When I looked at all the various forums I’m very happy that I joined this one because of all the constructive comments and questions which made me consider things that you all suggested.
I measured the OD of 10 case mouths after sizing. Very uniform from 0.3735 to 0.3740.
I’ve checked the case holder and it is square and aligned as it sits secured on the top of the ram. The case enters the die squarely and doesn’t shift when the ram is raised. The ram raises straight up and there isn’t any movement sideways, just straight up and down. I’ve chamfered the case mouth slightly but that didnt stop making the shavings. I verified the die is at the right depth in the press.
I think you are right and have now come to the same assumption as you; that the top inside edge of the TN insert is scraping off the shavings when the case is lowered out of the die. I did try putting the case into the die but not so far as to go beyond the inside edge of the TN insert, and that did not result in any shavings at all. The top inside edge of the insert is very smooth, (no fibers pulled off of a cotton swab) but it may have a sharp edge. There is no definite fix for the problem yet, that will happen after the die manufacturer reevaluates (for a second time) And will take several weeks until any further info can be attained.
thanks!
Steve

Since you have had to send it back twice, I would strongly request a new replacement die and let Hornady figure this one out.
It looks like the TN insert is miss-sized now doesn’t it.
Do please come back with the outcome of this matter!

 

[divingin]

Should be the die body and decapping stem only and the nut on top to tighten the decapping stem.

Now, if it's a .38 special die only, would the case hit the top inside the die, get bent or peened and when it's pulled through the sizer ring on the way out, those bent edges get shaved off ? Is it a .38/.357 die? Is a .38 only shorter?

I read a long time ago you could use a .38 die for .357 if you used a washer of certain thickness under the locking ring.

.38Spl and .357 Magnum use the same sizing die. For seating, yes, you can do the washer thing assuming you're loading the same bullet to same depth.

I don't know of any .38Spl only dies. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but every one I've seen has been 38/357 (and lately 357Max.)

OP: From the pic looking into the die mouth, you're scraping brass from the body of the case on withdrawal. Send that pic and the die back to Lee (Sorry; Hornady. Or whoever.) They need to chamfer the upper edge of the titanium insert. Or give you die that already has that done.

 

[CZSandW]

Thank you all for helping me to try and troubleshoot the problem with the sizing die making brass shavings. I took all of your suggestions, to no avail. I contacted Hornady a second time and they sent me a replacement sizing die. The new die works perfectly. I’ve visually compared the two dies at 10x magnification and they look identical. I’ve measured the ID of the titanium nitride sizing insert on both and they are the same, to the 0.0000
So I am at a total loss to explain the old die.
But, Hornady came through and sent a good replacement!

 

[PigButtons]

Thank you all for helping me to try and troubleshoot the problem with the sizing die making brass shavings. I took all of your suggestions, to no avail. I contacted Hornady a second time and they sent me a replacement sizing die. The new die works perfectly. I’ve visually compared the two dies at 10x magnification and they look identical. I’ve measured the ID of the titanium nitride sizing insert on both and they are the same, to the 0.0000
So I am at a total loss to explain the old die.
But, Hornady came through and sent a good replacement!

That's good to hear. Now load up a bunch and go shooting.

 

[divingin]

I think you are right and have now come to the same assumption as you; that the top inside edge of the TN insert is scraping off the shavings when the case is lowered out of the die.

Pretty obvious from the pic.

Send it back to Hornady, and include a copy of that pic (the one showing the shavings built up at the top of the sizing ring.) If there's obvious scraping of the cases (there may or may not be) include a couple of those as well.

Since this is the 2nd time going back, I wouldn't feel bad about asking for a new die. Might ask if they'll stick it in a press and test it for the same problem before shipping, too.