Sighter management for the first match of the day with a clean barrel

[chkunz]

If I take the barrel right down to bare metal, as in ZERO carbon whatsoever, it takes me about 3-4 to get into the "ten / X ring" BUT it takes about 10 more to get it "solidly" shooting a VERY TIGHT vertical. Remember this>>>anything above or below the "waterline" will give you LESS TARGET AREA to hit a 10 with as the arc of the circle closes in.. The 3 O'clock / 9 O'clock is the W-I-D-E-S-T point on the target. So vertical becomes paramount, BOTH in load development and to ensure the barrel is fouled out..

Good info, thanks.

 

[Immike]

I show up with a clean barrel often at the local matches. If I study my barrel at practice then I can predict the foul in. As a rule of thumb I aim at the top of the 10 ring on the 1st shot and top of the X on 2nd. If they go in the middle then I'm off to a good start.

I think you are saying that you know your zeros and your gun well enough that it only takes two sighters and when you see what you expect from those two sighters you are good to go for record after two sighters. Is that correct? Also it sounds like you only get an impact change in the vertical during the two sighters from the fouling?

Our high power crew runs our NRA approved matches so only 2 sighters is what we get for a first relay. This being the norm and situation I had to figure out how to deal with it. I set out to study my foulers right away to put a handle on this match. Each practice session starts with this study.

 

[chkunz]

Another thought to all. I really prefer shooting only two sighters which is no doubt influenced by many years of NRA XTC competition. I think my biggest problem is that I believe bad data is worse than no data and two or three sighters that are not in the group while getting the barrel fouled and the point of impact not repeatable is to me bad data and I prefer not to even see it. When I shot smallbore prone I learned to put the first two or three shots over the target so I did not have to see the bad data and this process took a minimum of my record time. The high power rules do not allow this so I need to develop a new strategy. What I would really, really prefer is a "Rifleman's" match where you get no sighters and this is no doubt influenced by my experience with LEG matches where it is important to have a no wind zero, being able to make a good wind call and put the first shot in the middle of the target. I am sure I will get no support for this but you might find it interesting to think about or maybe not.

 

[pcrowe]

I would not be in favor of a mid range and especially a long range match with no sighters. It's not a problem anymore, I have my own 1000yd range now, but in the past I can't tell you how many times I went to a long range match with only a 100 yard zero. I did all my training for 1000 yards at the local 100 yard range. I was just happy when the target went down with that first shot.

I always go to a match with a clean barrel. After about three or four shots, it will settle down, then I'll go for record.

 

[chkunz]

I would not be in favor of a mid range and especially a long range match with no sighters. It's not a problem anymore, I have my own 1000yd range now, but in the past I can't tell you how many times I went to a long range match with only a 100 yard zero. I did all my training for 1000 yards at the local 100 yard range. I was just happy when the target went down with that first shot.

I always go to a match with a clean barrel. After about three or four shots, it will settle down, then I'll go for record.

Thanks, I lost my head for a minute and it is good to have some adult supervision. It is obvious that I have not got past shooting LEG matches. LEG matches tend to make competitors very disciplined, you have to have a good no wind zero and make a good wind call on the first shot from four different positions and three different yard lines and the first shot must be in the middle of the target on each stage. A mid range match would be feasible for no sighters but probably the F Class folks would not go for it, they seem to shoot a lot of sighters. It seems like unlimited sighters have become a substitute for wind reading ability.

 

[rminut]

[/quote]... A mid range match would be feasible for no sighters but probably the F Class folks would not go for it, they seem to shoot a lot of sighters. It seems like unlimited sighters have become a substitute for wind reading ability.
[/quote]

oh, you went and stepped in it now. here come the riots.....

 

[Immike]

... A mid range match would be feasible for no sighters but probably the F Class folks would not go for it, they seem to shoot a lot of sighters. It seems like unlimited sighters have become a substitute for wind reading ability.
[/quote]

oh, you went and stepped in it now. here come the riots.....
[/quote]

Lmao, I think we are getting numb to these insights on our sport. No harm done. I've shot a variety of disciplines and each has a different perspective of the other guys. Most bench shooters wouldn't consider fouling a barrel to the level the prone shooters do. I don't think the silhouette shooter gets unlimited sighters at their game either. Each has set of rules that apply to all and a target or coarse of fire appropriate for the limitations.

 

[1shot]

Sorry if I'm late to the party but a couple of guys are on the right track according to my findings. Nothing scientific, just leafing through the dope book and experience. I NEVER go to a match with a clean bbl. because I have a range in my back yard that I can double check my zeros prior to a match. I believe that the shift in POI is due to barrel temp. not cleanliness. It doesn't seem to matter if the barrel is clean or not, in my rifles the 1st shot is 2 rings low. As the barrel warms up, the shots climb as well. Usually by shots 3-4, I'm in the middle. The only thing left to do, is to pay attention,to your details and you should be GTG.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[chkunz]

Sorry if I'm late to the party but a couple of guys are on the right track according to my findings. Nothing scientific, just leafing through the dope book and experience. I NEVER go to a match with a clean bbl. because I have a range in my back yard that I can double check my zeros prior to a match. I believe that the shift in POI is due to barrel temp. not cleanliness. It doesn't seem to matter if the barrel is clean or not, in my rifles the 1st shot is 2 rings low. As the barrel warms up, the shots climb as well. Usually by shots 3-4, I'm in the middle. The only thing left to do, is to pay attention,to your details and you should be GTG.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

This is something that no one has mentioned before in this thread, that the POI shift is a temperature effect and not cleanliness effect, definitely a possibility. If this is a common thing and not unique to your rifle then it defiantly needs to be considered. The new F Class target is much more challenging than the conventional target and things that were not noticed previously or thought to be significant for the sling shooter may be worth considering for F Class. If an F Class shooter were to plot his sighting shots and collect the data for several matches he could see if there is something repeatable going on or not. It sounds like you have collected enough data either by plotting shots or by remembering them to have some evidence. Could it be that it is a combination of temperature and clean barrel? If so it makes the subject more challenging. Do F Class shooters normally keep a data book and plot shots? Some conventional prone shooters do but many do not. Sometimes I do but it definitely is a distraction if you are trying to shoot fast.