Sierra"s poor bullet bearing surface runout

[bozo699]

Re: Amateur Question

Amateur Perspective:

So I get 1000 bullets and start sorting by bullet length

The only way to ensure minimal disparities, in bullet tloerances, is to go with custom hand swaged bullets

wildchild: I did not think Sierra sold their bullets in 1000 count box's, as suggested earlier. If they were different lot numbers between both 500 count box's, then you really did not do a fair comparison. How much variation if you compared only one box?

Well after beating the dead horse to death i decided to start measuring em out, segregating by length of bearing surface my 1/2" flyers went away as did the pressure spikes! Back to bug holes!

Just an update...called Sierra today with my CRISES. Explained what I have at hand for a problem.

he didn't say if they shot only ones from one bag or mixed them up. i can't believe bullets with as much as .030 thous difference in base to bearing ogive seated to the same depth would do that.

The picture is removed but if the fellow was measuring bullets with a hand-held caliper the measurements may vary considerably more than actual due to the variance in hand pressure used to close it.

Theres no doubt that my method for measuring the base to bearing point on ogive isn't the most accurate method.

I use a Sinclair body and comp on each end of my caliper so I get the true length instead of base to ogive.

Just want to add the guy at Sierra sort slipped and told me they were measuring from BASE to OGIVE (spelling) of the bullet....well I bit my tongue to say the least!

BEARING surface length.

I myself do not measure bearing surface length,..I measure the variance of bearing surface length.

What is my point ? THREE different measuring points on the same bullet, original bullets were from two different boxes and were measured with a hand held instrument. The OP stated that the flyers went away, back to bugholes, but the bullets were later sent in for evaluation.

Can anyone here state with certainty what the elongation or growth of 6mm 107SMK is if one took it from an unheated garage located anywhere north of the Mason Dixon line in January and brought it into a structure heated to 73 Deg ?? As the bullets equilibrated with the indoor temp, heated up, what would the change in any of the discussed lengths be ??? Assume the measuring tools are indoors and at constant T.

Hey Flouncer bouncer....Really only a Amateur would ask this question!...wanna go that route how about measuring bore diameter??? What temp should I shoot at??? maybe I should stay home certain days to shoot based on temp... just askin Mr wizard
REREAD.......dont skip to the last post and talk like ya know something you wish you knew!!!


What qualifies you as a pro and me as a amateur????\
tell ya what Ill put one bullet in the oven and one the freezer and ill post my findings!!!!!

:-X

 

[lpreddick]

if i measure base to ogive and note a difference, i look at the boatail. measuring it is trickey. 3.5 optical loupes and careful measurement confirms if it's the same when base to ogive varies. in this case the difference will have to be in the bearing surface. variation in the length of the bearing surface will produce varying barrel drag, pressure, muzzel velocity,etc and accuracy. it's like shooting the same weight bullet from different manufacturers. anyway, got my final email from mr treece at sierra..."did note variation in length. material flow and galling in form dies on these high speed bullet presses". this explains everything? sierra is sending replacement bullets when they make them. custom bullets that have measured as sold: fowler, cheek's, jlk, and precision ballistics...others out there for sure. "custom, and hand made" strike me more favorable than "high speed bullet presses".

 

[CanusLatransSnpr]

Theres no doubt that my method for measuring the base to bearing point on ogive isn't the most accurate method. However, like in2deep I give the bullet half a twist, plus lay a "heavy" thumb on the roller of my calipers so my measurement method is quite repeatable. Sinclair comparator body and proper bullet comparator do a damned good job for measuring base to ogive on bullets. How do you check OAL of a loaded rounded? Probably the same way I do, with a pair of calipers, comparator body and appropriate bullet comparator! Its accepatable for measuring loaded rounds but, not for measuring base to ogive on bullets? Can't see where there is much difference. And in reply to how said bullets shoot. They didn't shoot half as well as the other manufacturer's bullets that I was shooting that measured +/- .0005"! To each their own but, my time is worth something and I would rather spend it shooting than sorting bullets. Just my .02!

Mike

Mike,
I agree with you,.. but at 600 yards and over you should be measuring if you are going after the wood! Bullets, guns, fuel, motel rooms, etc,etc,etc are way to expensive not too!! I agree with Wildchild,.. I believe he said he had .021 in variation,..that is wayyyyyy to much and is unacceptable, I usually see three groups within a box of Sierra bullets and not near that much spread but enough to make a difference so I sort them, I like to keep them in groups of about .001 spread and like I said I usually get about three piles out of a box of 500. Over the years I have been very successful with SMK bullets, there are better bullets but for factory mass produced bullets there win ratio is VERY VERY high!
Wayne.

I agree with you Wayne but, I'm not a comp shooter. I'm just a deer hunter, varmint hunter, and like to punch paper but, for what bullets cost these days I expect better. Especially from a well known brand such as Sierra. When the opportunity arises for me to lay the cross hairs on a coyote, woodchuck, crow, etc. I want confidence that my load is going to do what I want it to without any funny stuff happening. Maybe I'm asking for too much? If you would please, shoot me a PM wayne on your loading regimen after sorting bullets by variance in bearing surface! Thanks!

Mike

 

[Flouncer]

Bozo, I posted as an amateur. That was my title statement. I think you misunderstood completely. I did read the entire thread. Ouch. The rules or conditions of the discussion change too many times. I was trying to point out that if the OP was concerned about changes in length, any measured length, then some other factors could come into play. He answered his own question at post # 10, page 1. I observed, as did others, your contemporaries, experts, he used a hand held measuring tool, instead of the static bases that got a page of discussion. Regarding the weather, ambient temperature, you have to shoot. It is beyond our control. But if you are going to measure, and speak to a large audience about a product, then everything comes into play. A measuring environment, even a hypothetical one, should be a controlled environment. Not an expert, not spoken as one. If I struck a wrong chord, that was not the intent. This amateur will suggest that if you put a bullet it in the oven, remember to wear gloves when you take it out. Science has an answer for that event, and it doesn't take 5 pages.

 

[wildchild]

Bozo, I posted as an amateur. That was my title statement. I think you misunderstood completely. I did read the entire thread. Ouch. The rules or conditions of the discussion change too many times. I was trying to point out that if the OP was concerned about changes in length, any measured length, then some other factors could come into play. He answered his own question at post # 10, page 1. I observed, as did others, your contemporaries, experts, he used a hand held measuring tool, instead of the static bases that got a page of discussion. Regarding the weather, ambient temperature, you have to shoot. It is beyond our control. But if you are going to measure, and speak to a large audience about a product, then everything comes into play. A measuring environment, even a hypothetical one, should be a controlled environment. Not an expert, not spoken as one. If I struck a wrong chord, that was not the intent. This amateur will suggest that if you put a bullet it in the oven, remember to wear gloves when you take it out. Science has an answer for that event, and it doesn't take 5 pages.

I actually dont recall answering my own question because really there was no question..The post started out a rant about match bullet's that were far from match standards was my point only....ya sorted bullets shoot better but like i mentioned earlier I shouldnt have 50 lots of 20 bullets out of 1000, kinda hard to go to a match with that mess..not?
The 5 pages that this post have are accumulations of responses and reply's from members that have seen the same problem ( people who sort bullets, because this is accurate shooter forum) , then there's reply's that give updates of the BS there experiencing with the manufacturer.
Also as a reputable company you'd think I and others wouldn't have wait over a month for a response or some sorta constructive resolution!
I do admit there plenty courteous on the phone, the phone guys are just the middle man, the guy who were waiting one is to buisy trying to get a small group with my bullets he hasnt had time to respond is all.... ;D
Im done posting and lookn like a jerk till I get info on the resolution to the issue.

 

[bozo699]

Flouncer,
All is good as far s I am concerned,...no problems here, I personally think this has been a good thread,...A good rant as wildchild has pointed out. I have obviously had different results with Sierra bullets then Wildchild or some of the others, I don't doubt them for a second, at one point I thought he may be measuring them incorrectly or inconsistently but I don't think that now and I also think Wildchild is correct that over a month is ridiculous amount of time in getting back to him as a matter of a fact WHY are they test firing them at all, I would be beside myself as that is also ridiculous there a huge company,..why don't they just send him another box of bullets and be done with it! I myself have always seen about two or three piles of bullets from a box of 500, two main piles and a third one with maybe 50 in it and usually a forth pile with very few that may be quite a bit off but very few like 4 or five maybe, I use them for fouling, if I have a pile of close to fifty I will load them for a match if not there for working up loads or practice, the two large piles I keep separate and and load them for my matches, my long range match bullets I like to keep within about .001 of one another so I feel I am fairly picky! My only complaint with sierra bullets if it is a complaint is they don't buck the wind as well as some of the VLD bullets however there are always trade offs as the Sierras aren't picky with seating depths and I feel the VLds can be, All in all I have been very happy with Sierra bullets over the years, and yes they are called match grade bullets but as we all know we get what we pay for for the most part and Sierra bullets are mass produced on big machines and there quality control can't rival someone like Spencer or JLK or Barts that are produced on small hand presses and you practically check every bullet,...also the Sierras are not over $60 per hundred either!

Wildchild I have never thought you were or acted like a jerk! just a consumer that wants what he pays for! as long as your measurements are correct you have a legit complaint as far as I am concerned and especially for the long wait!!
Wayne.

 

[wildchild]

Well, after a heated message left Friday to keep there bullets and no needed return phone call After calling again on wed morning and was told Id hear by afternoon the outcome and didnt hear from anyone .....I got one anyway from someone a little higher up the ladder at Sierra.
He stated "no sense in boring ya with the detail's long story short were gunna replace em and add another 500 ct box for the hassle" So any way, I guess theres 3-500 ct boxes headed my way.
Do I have a grudge? Ya proly for a little while;D Sh!% happens..... right?

 

[WyleWD]

He stated "no sense in boring ya with the detail's long story short were gunna replace em and add another 500 ct box for the hassle" So any way, I guess theres 3-500 ct boxes headed my way.
Do I have a grudge? Ya proly for a little while;D Sh!% happens..... right?

MAN!! I dunno if (after all this) that I'd have settled for that. I'm thinking I'd have wanted to hear the details and long story to see if I now had 1500 bullets to weigh & measure or not. ??? WD

 

[wildchild]

He stated "no sense in boring ya with the detail's long story short were gunna replace em and add another 500 ct box for the hassle" So any way, I guess theres 3-500 ct boxes headed my way.
Do I have a grudge? Ya proly for a little while;D Sh!% happens..... right?

MAN!! I dunno if (after all this) that I'd have settled for that. I'm thinking I'd have wanted to hear the details and long story to see if I now had 1500 bullets to weigh & measure or not. ??? WD

There was a few quick words of what happened, but it's kinda a whatever deal!
The bullets won't be opened, they'll be listed and sold here unopened! I'll be resorting to yellow box bullets for now.

 

[hepburn45110]

There was a few quick words of what happened, but it's kinda a whatever deal!
The bullets won't be opened, they'll be listed and sold here unopened! I'll be resorting to yellow box bullets for now.
[/quote]


??? :-[

 

[wapiti25]

Thank you wildchild for making us aware of the problems with Sierra bullets. If the shots really need to count check the bullets. I also want to thank those that had construtive comments.

 

[.260 james]

I have read on these forums about problems with Sierra and Hornady bullets recently. Makes me believe that my choice of Berger Bullets is a Sound one. I have started using the new Nosler Varmagedon bullets out of a .243. I half expect these bullets to be junk for $14.95 a box. So far half inch bipod fired groups at 3900 fps has been normal. The comment on beer cans be more consisent may not be accurate but sure is funny!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wildchild]

I have read on these forums about problems with Sierra and Hornady bullets recently. Makes me believe that my choice of Berger Bullets is a Sound one. I have started using the new Nosler Varmagedon bullets out of a .243. I half expect these bullets to be junk for $14.95 a box. So far half inch bipod fired groups at 3900 fps has been normal. The comment on beer cans be more consisent may not be accurate but sure is funny!!!!!!!!!!

Well I measured some beer cans and Ill tell ya what youd be amazed, not one measured .030 longer in bearing length! ;D

 

[wildchild]

There was a few quick words of what happened, but it's kinda a whatever deal!
The bullets won't be opened, they'll be listed and sold here unopened! I'll be resorting to yellow box bullets for now.

??? :-[
[/quote]
Not quit getting this, BUT.....OK ??? :-[

 

[johnmyers]

wildchild if you shoot in matches why don't you keep records and at the end of the season tell us how many times you were beaten by junk Sierra bullets

 

[wildchild]

wildchild if you shoot in matches why don't you keep records and at the end of the season tell us how many times you were beaten by junk Sierra bullets

Ill keep record just for you Seirra lovers and post next fall
I dont think there junk and dont recall saying that, but ill admit there costumer service was down right ridiculous, hey Im no David TUBB!!!!
How about I call all other shooter who have kept record come and give your recorded data, id appreciate it along with some of these poster on this thread?
I like a challenge from people who think its OK for this to happen!
replys like this make we wish id just sold em to poster like this so your magic super barrel would shoot em lights out!!!

 

[wildchild]

wildchild if you shoot in matches why don't you keep records and at the end of the season tell us how many times you were beaten by junk Sierra bullets

Just a couple more additions here(becouse i cant leave well enough alone) I checked the IBS equipment list and looks as though anyone in the winners circle is shooting yellow/orange bullets so if im getting beat by them(yellow/orange) its gunna be a easy record keeping year. ;D

 

[johara1]

Wildchild, I have not found any bullet that will shoot as small as the DTAC 115 in the Dasher,at 100 or 1000 yds. I think it is made by Sierra........jim

 

[wildchild]

Wildchild, I have not found any bullet that will shoot as small as the DTAC 115 in the Dasher,at 100 or 1000 yds. I think it is made by Sierra........jim

Hey thats great there workn for ya, what competition do ya shoot in?

 

[queen_stick]

Wildchild, I have not found any bullet that will shoot as small as the DTAC 115 in the Dasher,at 100 or 1000 yds. I think it is made by Sierra........jim

Jim, what twist barrel are you using for the 115's?