a followup on the .25 cal 100 gr smk bullets with varying bearing surface: got a phone message from mr treece. he states "they" shot a very small group at 200 yds. i sorted the bullets into bearing groups...three bags. he didn't say if they shot only ones from one bag or mixed them up. i can't believe bullets with as much as .030 thous difference in base to bearing ogive seated to the same depth would do that. he didn't say if i would get the rest of my bullets back or sierra would replace them. i'll post whatever becomes of this. needless to say, sierra is losing my interest in their bullets...buying more custom ones now, esp since i discovered they cost less than $30/100.
Sierra"s poor bullet bearing surface runout
- Thread starter wildchild
- Start date
I've noticed the same with Sierra bullets also, not very consistent in base to bearing point on ogive. I measure them with a Sinclair comparator body and a "very" expensive pair of digital calipers, good enough for what I do! Their .224 cal match bullets, 52gr, and 69gr measured poorly at best. Same with some .308 cal 150gr hunting bullets. What amazed me was that a cheep box of 52gr Speer varmint bullets measured better, +/- .0005", than Sierra match bullets! What gives? For myself, Hornady, Speer, Nosler, and the custom bullet makers will get my business! Just my experiences!
Mike
Mike
wildchild
Gold $$ Contributor
lpreddick said:
Well if there shooting em to see if there gunna shoot all messed up, then there gunna prolly have half what you sent in to get a "SMALL" group t 200yds!
So there gunna have to replace all they shot up I guess with more bullets for you to sort!Wish I had that job shootn outa wack bullets...think of all that trigger time! ;D
Now I know whys taking so long on my end.....there still tryin to get a small group! maybe ill call and have shoot just 3 shot groups :
:At least I didnt give up and just sell em here to some poor soul.
Oh another thought...I bought by a barrel based on the twist rate recommended by Berger and what come out being a label misprint on the ammo box, cost me unstable bullets! I had barrel and chamber job PAID FOR and back on my rifle 2 WEEKS! 8)
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
My 107SMK in 6mm measured in three different batches also, 393 were plus or minus .0005 and 97 of them were -.001--.0015 and ten of them ranged from -002 to +0015 there only shooting about 1/2 minute at 1000 yards,.....what bullets do you suggest?? I did buy some Spencer 103VLD's at $60.25 per hundred before shipping and the first ten I measured varied .001??.... I bought 1700 105 Berger hybrids and I have measured 600 of them, they measure about the same as the Sierras over 500 went +- .0005 28 of them I think were from as much as -.003 to +.0025.
The Speer bullets I measured went -.006 to +.006 and I work there so I wished they were better because I can get a discount but unfortunately I have never found any of there bullets to be very uniform in measurement or weight, so if you fellas can tell me what bullet Co. I can buy say 1000 bullets and have a variance of .0000
and I will get my credit card out
Wayne.
I believe sorting is just a part of life if you want accuracy!
The Speer bullets I measured went -.006 to +.006 and I work there so I wished they were better because I can get a discount but unfortunately I have never found any of there bullets to be very uniform in measurement or weight, so if you fellas can tell me what bullet Co. I can buy say 1000 bullets and have a variance of .0000
and I will get my credit card out
Wayne.
I believe sorting is just a part of life if you want accuracy!
The picture is removed but if the fellow was measuring bullets with a hand-held caliper the measurements may vary considerably more than actual due to the variance in hand pressure used to close it.
I could tell my hand calipers were lying cuz the bullets shot so tight and after getting the proper tool it was proven so.
After going to a Innovative Technologies comparator that uses consistent spring force it was easy to tell that the hand tool was way off and the bullets (SMK's 107) were actually much more uniform than it showed. It doesn't take much hand pressure to change the reading considerably when measuring in the thousandth's on an angled bullet surface and even with the proper free standing unit there are things that help maintain uniformity. I found that allowing the gauge to fall naturally on it's own pressure and then giving the bullet a half twist to better center it under the comparator body gives a very accurate and repeatable measurement and without the half twist the bullet would not always settle and center exactly the same in the round comparator.
So how did they shoot?
I could tell my hand calipers were lying cuz the bullets shot so tight and after getting the proper tool it was proven so.
After going to a Innovative Technologies comparator that uses consistent spring force it was easy to tell that the hand tool was way off and the bullets (SMK's 107) were actually much more uniform than it showed. It doesn't take much hand pressure to change the reading considerably when measuring in the thousandth's on an angled bullet surface and even with the proper free standing unit there are things that help maintain uniformity. I found that allowing the gauge to fall naturally on it's own pressure and then giving the bullet a half twist to better center it under the comparator body gives a very accurate and repeatable measurement and without the half twist the bullet would not always settle and center exactly the same in the round comparator.
So how did they shoot?
Theres no doubt that my method for measuring the base to bearing point on ogive isn't the most accurate method. However, like in2deep I give the bullet half a twist, plus lay a "heavy" thumb on the roller of my calipers so my measurement method is quite repeatable. Sinclair comparator body and proper bullet comparator do a damned good job for measuring base to ogive on bullets. How do you check OAL of a loaded rounded? Probably the same way I do, with a pair of calipers, comparator body and appropriate bullet comparator! Its accepatable for measuring loaded rounds but, not for measuring base to ogive on bullets? Can't see where there is much difference. And in reply to how said bullets shoot. They didn't shoot half as well as the other manufacturer's bullets that I was shooting that measured +/- .0005"! To each their own but, my time is worth something and I would rather spend it shooting than sorting bullets. Just my .02!
Mike
Mike
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Mike,CanusLatransSnpr said:
I agree with you,.. but at 600 yards and over you should be measuring if you are going after the wood! Bullets, guns, fuel, motel rooms, etc,etc,etc are way to expensive not too!! I agree with Wildchild,.. I believe he said he had .021 in variation,..that is wayyyyyy to much and is unacceptable, I usually see three groups within a box of Sierra bullets and not near that much spread but enough to make a difference so I sort them, I like to keep them in groups of about .001 spread and like I said I usually get about three piles out of a box of 500. Over the years I have been very successful with SMK bullets, there are better bullets but for factory mass produced bullets there win ratio is VERY VERY high!
Wayne.
wildchild
Gold $$ Contributor
@ Bozo669 its actually .027 but I was being conservative...actually closer to .030
@in2deep, not sure if your asking me how they shot, but Ill answer, they shot fine once segregated but if I split up by .001 BEARING surface I woulda had like 50 piles of bullets with 20 per pile!
Just want to add the guy at Sierra sort slipped and told me they were measuring from BASE to OGIVE (spelling) of the bullet....well I bit my tongue to say the least!
@in2deep, not sure if your asking me how they shot, but Ill answer, they shot fine once segregated but if I split up by .001 BEARING surface I woulda had like 50 piles of bullets with 20 per pile!
Just want to add the guy at Sierra sort slipped and told me they were measuring from BASE to OGIVE (spelling) of the bullet....well I bit my tongue to say the least!
Flouncer
What the heck it works for me !!
Amateur Question
Amateur Perspective:
What is my point ? THREE different measuring points on the same bullet, original bullets were from two different boxes and were measured with a hand held instrument. The OP stated that the flyers went away, back to bugholes, but the bullets were later sent in for evaluation.
Can anyone here state with certainty what the elongation or growth of 6mm 107SMK is if one took it from an unheated garage located anywhere north of the Mason Dixon line in January and brought it into a structure heated to 73 Deg ?? As the bullets equilibrated with the indoor temp, heated up, what would the change in any of the discussed lengths be ??? Assume the measuring tools are indoors and at constant T.
Amateur Perspective:
What is my point ? THREE different measuring points on the same bullet, original bullets were from two different boxes and were measured with a hand held instrument. The OP stated that the flyers went away, back to bugholes, but the bullets were later sent in for evaluation.
Can anyone here state with certainty what the elongation or growth of 6mm 107SMK is if one took it from an unheated garage located anywhere north of the Mason Dixon line in January and brought it into a structure heated to 73 Deg ?? As the bullets equilibrated with the indoor temp, heated up, what would the change in any of the discussed lengths be ??? Assume the measuring tools are indoors and at constant T.
wildchild
Gold $$ Contributor
Re: Amateur Question
Hey Flouncer bouncer....Really only a Amateur would ask this question!...wanna go that route how about measuring bore diameter??? What temp should I shoot at??? maybe I should stay home certain days to shoot based on temp... just askin Mr wizard
REREAD.......dont skip to the last post and talk like ya know something you wish you knew!!!
What qualifies you as a pro and me as a amateur????\
tell ya what Ill put one bullet in the oven and one the freezer and ill post my findings!!!!!
Flouncer said:Amateur Perspective:
What is my point ? THREE different measuring points on the same bullet, original bullets were from two different boxes and were measured with a hand held instrument. The OP stated that the flyers went away, back to bugholes, but the bullets were later sent in for evaluation.
Can anyone here state with certainty what the elongation or growth of 6mm 107SMK is if one took it from an unheated garage located anywhere north of the Mason Dixon line in January and brought it into a structure heated to 73 Deg ?? As the bullets equilibrated with the indoor temp, heated up, what would the change in any of the discussed lengths be ??? Assume the measuring tools are indoors and at constant T.
Hey Flouncer bouncer....Really only a Amateur would ask this question!...wanna go that route how about measuring bore diameter??? What temp should I shoot at??? maybe I should stay home certain days to shoot based on temp... just askin Mr wizard
REREAD.......dont skip to the last post and talk like ya know something you wish you knew!!!
What qualifies you as a pro and me as a amateur????\
tell ya what Ill put one bullet in the oven and one the freezer and ill post my findings!!!!!
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