Sierra"s poor bullet bearing surface runout

[wildchild]

So I get 1000 bullets and start sorting by bullet length and WOW 6mm 95grn MK's are giving me .027 difference!
I could see maybe a .338 300grn MK with that number becouse of size, but a little 6 bullet?
I didnt do a search becouse this is a RANT! but is the norm now days? If you have a dasher and want it to NOT shoot just buy and load some of these!

 

[Bob3700]

Sierra is a mass produced bullet, so I expect some variations in BS length. Most 107 SMKs that I have measured (this is over several thousand) will average .010" or so variation. .027 is a bunch more than I have experienced.

Go measure other brands and see what you get. Bullets that come in little yellow boxes (the 105 gr variety) for a whole lot more don't measure a whole lot better. Better but not compared to the increased price.

Sort away and then shoot the "brothers". They won't let you down. My best x counts at 600 and 1000 yds were with sorted green box bullets.

Bob

 

[Baddog0302]

Was you 1000 in ONE box, 2 500 box's or 10 100 box's ???? IF from one box of 1000, call them and I'll bet they will make it right.

 

[fdshuster]

wildchild: As Bob said, this is not uncommon with mass produced bullets, and I also agree .027" is a lot of variation. I use the same 95 gr. Sierra's # 1537, have sorted box's of 500 ( did not know they are available in 1000), and have found a maximum of .015". I usually sort them using one of the bullet comparators.

I've also sorted Bergers when I first started using them, but they were so consistant, I don't bother anymore.

We've had numerous "discussions" about this issue several times, and it remains (for me) a mystery as to the cause. I made the suggestion on the open forumn that the bullet maker may have been making the same bullet on different machines/dies, then funneling them into the same lot at the end of the line, and this was denied by some very knowledgable & experienced in the industry.

 

[chino1969]

The only way to ensure minimal disparities, in bullet tloerances, is to go with custom hand swaged bullets. Any of the mass produced bullets are manufactured on production equipment designed to spit out thousands per hour. Tolerance stacking, different swaging dies, different lots will all add incremental tolerance stacking. The custom guys produce one bullet at a time using hand operated dies. The mass produced bullets are great for what they are and do very well for most people. If you have spent several thousand on a custom rifle smithed by a well known smith, why would you scrimp on bullet selection?

 

[johara1]

I had the same thing with the 123 6.5 bullet and it was over .060 bearing surface difference in one box. i also had the same thing with Berger 108's were over .060 BS. diff. and i called them and was told that i was measuring them wrong bearing surface was not the proper way to measure a bullet, ogive to base is the proper way. So go figger that one.......jim

 

[wildchild]

Was you 1000 in ONE box, 2 500 box's or 10 100 box's ???? IF from one box of 1000, call them and I'll bet they will make it right.

It was in 2 boxes of 500. What im finding is they are consistent at, is im getting the same poor measurements.

 

[KevinThomas]

Might also want to take a look at the new Lapua Scenar Ls, if you want to get away from the sorting. They're available in 6mm 105 right now, and the other 6mms will be here very shortly. Very good reviews from a variety of testers here in the US, where these bullets showed up very well against sorted bullets from various other makers. These are an addition to our line, and are not replacing our standard Scenar series. They run slightly higher in price, but are incredibly uniform. If you consider your time spent sorting as being worth something, the price difference between these and the other brands you'll still have to sort, comes right back in line.

 

[wildchild]

Might also want to take a look at the new Lapua Scenar Ls, if you want to get away from the sorting. They're available in 6mm 105 right now, and the other 6mms will be here very shortly. Very good reviews from a variety of testers here in the US, where these bullets showed up very well against sorted bullets from various other makers. These are an addition to our line, and are not replacing our standard Scenar series. They run slightly higher in price, but are incredibly uniform. If you consider your time spent sorting as being worth something, the price difference between these and the other brands you'll still have to sort, comes right back in line.

Slightly higher priced isnt the word for it! : there 20.00 more a hundred and 100.00 more a thousand!
Sorting is part of the program without a doubt, my issue is they severity of the differences!
Im willing to to take 100 beer cans and measure them dimensionally and weigh them to show a aluminum can manufacturer has better control of tolerance! :

 

[fdshuster]

wildchild: I did not think Sierra sold their bullets in 1000 count box's, as suggested earlier. If they were different lot numbers between both 500 count box's, then you really did not do a fair comparison. How much variation if you compared only one box?

As I said, I've never come up with more than .015" variation, when comparing the same lot #'s.

But, one argument that is often made is that when they are all seated, the case head to bullet ogive length's will all be identical. Try it yourself. Take 20 bullets with variations from zero to .027", seat them, then measure.

Some will argue ( not I, one way or another) the difference does not matter. Others say it does because of the different bearing surface length's. Taking it one step further you could always load 20 with random length's and 20 with identical, then do a side-by-side test for group sizes.

 

[wildchild]

wildchild: I did not think Sierra sold their bullets in 1000 count box's, as suggested earlier. If they were different lot numbers between both 500 count box's, then you really did not do a fair comparison. How much variation if you compared only one box?

As I said, I've never come up with more than .015" variation, when comparing the same lot #'s.

But, one argument that is often made is that when they are all seated, the case head to bullet ogive length's will all be identical. Try it yourself. Take 20 bullets with variations from zero to .027", seat them, then measure.

Some will argue ( not I, one way or another) the difference does not matter. Others say it does because of the different bearing surface length's. Taking it one step further you could always load 20 with random length's and 20 with identical, then do a side-by-side test for group sizes.

Well after beating the dead horse to death i decided to start measuring em out, segregating by length of bearing surface my 1/2" flyers went away as did the pressure spikes! Back to bug holes! ;D

 

[bozo699]

Might also want to take a look at the new Lapua Scenar Ls, if you want to get away from the sorting. They're available in 6mm 105 right now, and the other 6mms will be here very shortly. Very good reviews from a variety of testers here in the US, where these bullets showed up very well against sorted bullets from various other makers. These are an addition to our line, and are not replacing our standard Scenar series. They run slightly higher in price, but are incredibly uniform. If you consider your time spent sorting as being worth something, the price difference between these and the other brands you'll still have to sort, comes right back in line.

Slightly higher priced isnt the word for it! : there 20.00 more a hundred and 100.00 more a thousand!
Sorting is part of the program without a doubt, my issue is they severity of the differences!
Im willing to to take 100 beer cans and measure them dimensionally and weigh them to show a aluminum can manufacturer has better control of tolerance! :

Who cares if they shoot good! I would gladly pay $1.00 more to put 10 in a very small group at 1000 yards. I have not had the opertunity to shoot any of the new Scenars but I bought a 1000 of them from bruno's at the start of the season last year and by the time I got through the third sack I gave up as there was no need to, base to ogive was less then .002 ES and most were within .0005 of each other, that's worth the extra money to me! Kevin keep churning out those near perfect bullets
Wayne.

 

[fdshuster]

wildchild: There you go. You've provided some proof that it does matter. I'll file your results in my need to know information. Maybe I gotta work harder at measuring & seperating the Sierra 107's that I use a lot of. And, yes I do get some unexplained flyers at the longer distances to 500 meters. I always wrote it off as wind caused.

 

[wildchild]

Might also want to take a look at the new Lapua Scenar Ls, if you want to get away from the sorting. They're available in 6mm 105 right now, and the other 6mms will be here very shortly. Very good reviews from a variety of testers here in the US, where these bullets showed up very well against sorted bullets from various other makers. These are an addition to our line, and are not replacing our standard Scenar series. They run slightly higher in price, but are incredibly uniform. If you consider your time spent sorting as being worth something, the price difference between these and the other brands you'll still have to sort, comes right back in line.

Slightly higher priced isnt the word for it! : there 20.00 more a hundred and 100.00 more a thousand!
Sorting is part of the program without a doubt, my issue is they severity of the differences!
Im willing to to take 100 beer cans and measure them dimensionally and weigh them to show a aluminum can manufacturer has better control of tolerance! :

Who cares if they shoot good! I would gladly pay $1.00 more to put 10 in a very small group at 1000 yards. I have not had the opertunity to shoot any of the new Scenars but I bought a 1000 of them from bruno's at the start of the season last year and by the time I got through the third sack I gave up as there was no need to, base to ogive was less then .002 ES and most were within .0005 of each other, that's worth the extra money to me! Kevin keep churning out those near perfect bullets
Wayne.

Thats fine and dandy but I like to shoot more than 10 shots a year. 8) I dont mind sorting bullets and multitasking while watching a tv program, my rant is basically comes down to Sierra getting the the program!

 

[pmarauder]

Sort away and then shoot the "brothers". They won't let you down. My best x counts at 600 and 1000 yds were with sorted green box bullets.

Bob

Im not sure i understand what this means??

 

[bozo699]

Sort away and then shoot the "brothers". They won't let you down. My best x counts at 600 and 1000 yds were with sorted green box bullets.

Bob

Im not sure i understand what this means??

It means sort and shoot the ones that weigh the same
Brothers,....the same.


Wildchild,
I do shoot more then 10 per year, you can multiply that by about 1000 centerfires and double that with rimfire enjoy them 107's my friend, I have shot tens of thousands of them at 1000 yards with very good success IMHO.
Wayne.

 

[LorenC]

wildchild: There you go. You've provided some proof that it does matter. I'll file your results in my need to know information. Maybe I gotta work harder at measuring & seperating the Sierra 107's that I use a lot of. And, yes I do get some unexplained flyers at the longer distances to 500 meters. I always wrote it off as wind caused.

I'll have to second this. Until further notice.

 

[wildchild]

Just an update...called Sierra today with my CRISES. Explained what I have at hand for a problem.
I was asked to send in some bullets that I measured that were short and the ones that measured long along with the lot numbers tore off the back of the box.
SO....we shall see

 

[johnmyers]

Just an update...called Sierra today with my CRISES. Explained what I have at hand for a problem.
I was asked to send in some bullets that I measured that were short and the ones that measured long along with the lot numbers tore off the back of the box.
SO....we shall see

I bet you will be treated in a courteous manner and will be happy when you get your problem resolved.

 

[wildchild]

Latest update is Sierra called this late afternoon and need all the bullets for further evaluation.