Should my hand go numb???

[Kimber.204]

Two questions:

Background:
I'm interested in trying NRA Mid Range competition. I am planning to attend a local match in a few weeks and I have been spending some time dry firing at home. I have a new shooting glove and a like new shooting jacket, but before I'm done with a 20 shot string (live fire at the range or dry firing at home) my sling hand is completely numb.

Question 1. Is it normal for my sling hand to go numb? Should I be doing something different to combat this?

More Background:
I'm using an 1-1/4" Turner Biothane sling, and as I have practiced I have noticed my ability to hold increase greatly. The problem is my pulse. Even though it is slow because I'm in fairly good health, it creates a huge tremor.

Question 2. Would a different style of sling reduce the visual magnitude of my pulse tremors? Can anyone recommend a specific sling (that won't break the bank)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[USMCDOC]

One of the best books you will ever buy is "Ways of the Rifle".. but yeah.. you don't have length of pull right and you have too much pressure on the sling hand.. first time i tried a match prone.. i was so out of adjustment that my left hand was numb for about a week and half.. not a good feeling

 

[Erud]

It's kind of part of the deal with sling shooting. You are putting your hand and wrist into a weird position and then putting a lot of pressure on it. Experimenting with position and sling tension can help, but some degree of discomfort is normal. I find that if I finish a string in 8 minutes or so, my hand feels pretty good. After 10 minutes, it's starting to go numb, and after 12 or 13, it's pretty much dead. I can't always shoot fast, so that's just the way it is. I don't think about it or let it become a factor in my shooting.

As for the pulse, that may be a different issue. Pulse can come from all kinds of places on your body, and is not always easy to track down. If your sling pulls from the inside of your bicep, you are likely getting pulse from the large artery that runs down your arm. Moving your sling up and down on your bicep may produce different pulse results. Higher up the arm above your bicep is usually better, but you'll have to experiment to see what is right for you.

Also, the Turner sling is pretty narrow. It's made for use with a service rifle, and isn't the best choice for prone shooting. A sling with a wider cuff should help distribute the pressure on your arm, and thereby reduce the amount of pulse you see in the sights.

Good luck.

 

[spclark]

What kind of rifle (stock?) are you shooting?

Prone isn't supposed to leave you numb after a string, let alone 10 or 15 minutes in position.

Does your handstop lay your sling across the back of your hand on your knuckles? Finding a position so it's more across the back of your hand (hand needs to be more in line with barrel than angled) may help. If your handstop's short, a taller one may help. Or using another one for your sling attachment ahead of the one you put into your thumb web.

Wider sling may help, also moving it to a different position on your upper arm.

I'm happy using one of D. Tubb's "Heart-breaker" slings but they're no longer offered on his website it seems.

Wayne Forshee (stallingsmachine.com) sells a web sling too that's supposed to be really good though I've never tried one.

Ask othet shooters what they use when you attend a match. Some may even have 'spares' you can try out.

 

[gme]

I know some very good shooters who shoot with a numb hand, I typically shoot with the rifle in my shoulder for the whole string and have no numbness, some of the typical mistakes I see new sling shooters make are;
length of pull too long
handstop too far forward
too much sling tension
these can all contribute to pain and numbness in the hand, another important area is the design of your handstop and how it makes contact with your support hand, if the handstop makes hard contact with the MCP joint of the index finger (the joint at the base of the finger) you can develop more serious numbness that can last for days.
I usually start out with no sights on the rifle (the sights can be a distraction when initially adjusting the rifle) and make small adjustments, one at a time, then mount the rifle and lay there for a few minutes, I can tell when I'm getting close by how long I can lay there without feeling discomfort, you'd be surprised at how much difference an adjustment as little as 1/4" can make. As for pulse, that's part of being alive, but as you hone in on a proper rifle setup and position it will become less of a problem

 

[watercam]

You can't do much better than the advise you have already received. For what it's worth I feel your pain (literally). I am using a standard glove with an XXXL mitt over it (available from Champion's Choice) to help the hand but in the end, as mentioned above, it is just part of the game. Pulse wise I am using a Creedmoor sling (green synthetic material, sling attaches at two different places on the cuff) which has been a huge help. Since I use a coat without a pulse pad I also (when I remember to grab it) use an elbow pad pulled up so that the pad is over the brachial artery (inside your arm down low). My pulse has pretty much disappeared. All that being said, it is possible to time your let off between the pulse 'bumps'. It's a rhythm thing. Keep it up! We need more sling shooters these days!

 

[brshtr]

Kimber,

You got some real good advice above and I'll try to add my 2 cents without duplicating what they said.

For me, support hand numbness is part of the deal. However, pain should not be. If you're in pain, you need to change something. I've more or less gotten accustomed to numbness, as Erud said above. Here are some things that might help.

There are lots of different handstops and changing to a different one might help. Some are harder and some are softer. I use an Anschutz 4751, made of some kind of plastic/resin, which isn't as hard as others and gives me a wide area to press the web of my hand against. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/1940/Air-Rifle-Accessories.

Some handstops are wider than others. If it's too narrow, it may be directing pressure against too small an area of your hand. Comfort is subjective, so don't hesitate to try different ones -- it's not unusual for people to own several and they may let you borrow their unused ones or even sell them to you.

I have really thin hands so I need lots of padding in my glove. I use the Creedmoor black and yellow glove. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/prod...EATHER-BLACK-AND-YELLOW-GLOVE/Shooting-Gloves. Don't expect it to last forever, as the padding compresses after awhile and gives you less cushion. I shoot upwards of 5000 rounds/year from prone and replace the glove about every 1-2 years.

I second what was said above about length of pull, handstop position, and sling tension. Depending on the position of the handstop and the length/tension of the sling, you may be leaning into the handstop too much and putting more pressure against it than you need to. Handstop position and sling length work together, and when you change one you'll usually have to change the other in tandem.

As others said, the pulse problem usually is a result of the sling pressing against the brachial artery on the inside of your upper arm. As watercam said, padding helps, whether inside the coat or on the outside. NRA coats like Creedmoor's usually have lots of padding in that area. International coats don't.

Positioning the sling properly on your arm is real important -- you want to have it pull from the back of your arm and not from the side with the brachial artery. A traditionally-designed sling can be positioned properly but may take more time to get it just right. Other slings have a self-centering feature. At the suggestion of an AMU shooter and two-time Olympian, Eric Uptagrafft, I switched to a Jensen. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/category/s/2. It has two parts: a cuff that goes around your arm and a sling that goes from the cuff to the rifle. When set up properly, it self-centers.

Last bit of advice: As USMCDOC said above: get Ways of the Rifle. It's very detailed, with lots of photos and illustrations. Every now and then when I feel like I need to tweak something (a never-ending process for me) I go back to the relevant section of that book and always find something that helps, even after reading it before.

Good luck!

Dave Rabin

 

[dickn52]

You can pick up pulse from your cheek weld as well. When shooting a lot of RF matches, we built the figure '8' to go with our pulse rate. With a 24x Weaver I can see it very easily.

 

[1shot]

I just solved my hand numbness issue by going to a Jensen sling from Creedmoorsports. As stated by brshtr, this is the most comfortable sling I've ever owned.

Lloyd

 

[Travelor]

It is called
Compressive radial nerve palsy, know also as sling palsy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1015144/

and has been a problem for years with shooters. It can be permanent.

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

Positioning the sling properly on your arm is real important -- you want to have it pull from the back of your arm and not from the side with the brachial artery. A traditionally-designed sling can be positioned properly but may take more time to get it just right. Other slings have a self-centering feature. At the suggestion of an AMU shooter and two-time Olympian, Eric Uptagrafft, I switched to a Jensen. http://www.creedmoorsports.com/category/s/2. It has two parts: a cuff that goes around your arm and a sling that goes from the cuff to the rifle. When set up properly, it self-centers.

Fully agree on the above. I can say more; you can make your own self-centering-sling just watching how are made the ones in the market. Don't forget that the maximum wide allowed for the sling is 4cm. Wider is not allowed, and narrower goes very fast inside your arm, creating bad blood circulation.

Sorry to say that padding in the arm is not allowed in ISSF competitions. There are very strict rules to what dressing thickness and stiffness is concerned.

Distance of the point of attachment of the sling to the shoulder is basic. I usually shoot with the sling very close to the elbow and, despite everybody's opinion, I feel comfortable that way.

 

[watercam]

I believe the OP is competing in NRA Centerfire Mid-range events as opposed to ISSF so there is no limit on slings unless he is shooting Service Rifle. But good points on usage!

 

[spclark]

Distance of the point of attachment of the sling to the shoulder is basic. I usually shoot with the sling very close to the elbow and, despite everybody's opinion, I feel comfortable that way.

Whatever works for you's best!

Either up high - where most shooting jackets will have hooks or other means of securing slings from dropping lower - or low near the elbow (less mechanical advantage for steadying but works for some) is what's recommended, with the tension side set to the outside.

(Service rifle can't use hooks; sling has to stay put all by itself.)

What's not recommended for pulse is anywhere near middle third of the upper arm.

Get with somebody who shoots sling regularly to review your position. Maybe help you adjust sling while you're in position, so you don't have to struggle & tire yourself out trying incremental changes.

 

[Kimber.204]

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

To address a few things:

My rifle is an FN SPR A5M....a tactical rifle, but I don't have any tactical rifle matches near me (Pittsburgh PA area). So NRA Mid/Long Range is the next best thing. The rifle has a McMillan A5 stock adjustable length of pull - I'm 6'3" and I have very long arms, so I've been keeping the stock at max length. I'm currently using the flush cup swivel on the forend....so no option for adjustment there. I don't have any pain, even after multiple 20 shot strings, just numbness.

I will check out some of the slings mentioned and I'll play with sling location on my arm. I'll let you know what I find out!

Thanks again folks!

 

[spclark]

My rifle is an FN SPR A5M....

That stock then may be playing a roll in your numbness issue. It's wider up front than the A3's, supposed to be better for bag / bipod use.

With a sling you're going to have to try to keep your hand flatter under the bottom, avoid trying to wrap too much of your thumb around the left side.

If the handstop you're using pivots left/right, try moving it so it's not in-line with the bore but pointed more at your left shoulder. If round & fixed, do what you can to keep your hand flat, maybe with just fingers wrapped a bit up the stock's right side.

 

[Rtheurer]

As Steve Points out, its the Sling and cup set up. Its smashing the top of your hand down against the stock and cutting off your circulation.
I was guilty of this with using small and short handstops in a rail system for many years. The slow learner that I am ...I finally figured out what was killing me and went to a taller hand stop. With the conection point of the sling to the swivel ABOVE my hand and not down on the top of it...it has stopped almost all of that silly numbness. If I am in the sling for a long periods of time in a team match, my hand still goes numb but not in 10 or 15 min like before.

 

[fx77]

If the sling is too tight on your arm, it can compress the radial nerve under your triceps, which gives numbness on the top of your hand between the thumb and index finger, and it can lead to a radial nerve palsy and a dropped wrist. Lots of shooters hope to control pulse by tightening the arm sling..OP did not specify where the hand is numb....but consider

http://www.healthline.com/health/radial-nerve-dysfunction#Overview1

https://www.netterimages.com/radial...cations-orthopaedics-frank-h-netter-4792.html

 

[Kimber.204]

UPDATE!!!

Thanks again for all the replies and comments folks! A couple weeks ago I shot my FN in .308win with the A5 McMillan stock in a mini NRA XTC match. Prior to doing this I spent some time playing with my setup. In the end I did three things that helped...

1. I lengthened my sling.
2. I wore a thick sweatshirt under my shooting coat - instead of just a long sleeved T-shirt.
3. I practiced some breathing exercises that my wife taught me from her Yoga class.

The Result??? No numbness, and a small and even slower pulse.....I cleaned the targets in rapid fire prone and slow fire prone! It feels good to beat the AR crowd in rapid fire when you're using a bolt action!

I did end up purchasing another sling as well but didn't use it for this match - it is the Kurt Thune made for smallbore but I guess some guys use it for highpower with great success.
Thanks again for all your help everybody.

 

[zanemoseley]

Now try going to small bore where you gotta shoot 40 shots plus sighters. My hand goes a bit numb even with a creedmoor coat, thick glove and nice Hata sling.