Should F-class Xs score points (11)?
- Thread starter 6BRinNZ
- Start date
Re: Should Xs score points?
Having shot with David several times, I bet what would irk him in that scenario is that he dropped a 9, not that someone else shot well. Over time and matches, these things tend to work themselves out. That is why our major tournaments span several days and numerous matches.
[br]6BRinNZ said:
Having shot with David several times, I bet what would irk him in that scenario is that he dropped a 9, not that someone else shot well. Over time and matches, these things tend to work themselves out. That is why our major tournaments span several days and numerous matches.
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
The reason for the "X" ring is to be used as a tie breaker, that's it.
The guy with lower score and higher "X" count should lose, he might have beat the winner in "X's", but he also beat the winner in "9's"
The guy with lower score and higher "X" count should lose, he might have beat the winner in "X's", but he also beat the winner in "9's"
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
Erik is exactly right, the X is a tie-breaker and does not count for score other than in ties. In fact, if someone shoots 20X (and I have seen it done at 300 yards,) the shooter is supposed to continue shooting as long as he or she scores Xs (perfect score). You can read about this in rule 9.7 of the NRA Highpower rule book. So a score of 200-20X plus 5X (that's how it's to be recorded) is a valid score but you will notice that the main score does not change. The game is the 10-ring.
jbpmidas said:
I believe this is truer than you may think.
I shoot short range UBR matches and we use the 11 point scoring system. I can tell you two things about it. One is that the best shooter that day will still win most every time, and two, is that with the 11 point system, a 10 is a mistake that's worth 1 point and a 9 is a mistake worth 2.--Mike
[br]gunsandgunsmithing said:
I thought Spinal Tap's Nigel Tufnel had a copyright on going to 11.
Because it's 1 louder than 10... ;Dsleepygator said:[br]gunsandgunsmithing said:
I thought Spinal Tap's Nigel Tufnel had a copyright on going to 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EbVKWCpNFhY#t=18s
I am not an F-class shooter but at the NRA highpower xc nationals they take the top 50 competitors from the year before and place them all on the same relay. This relay does not always shoot first but the point is that these shooters always get the same conditions. There is about a 99.9% chance the national champion will come from this relay thus making it as fair as possible for the top competitors.
As I have always understood it the point of precision shooting for score, versus for group, is to get as close to the aim point as possible. The current scoring system is fine if I am correct in my assumption about the point of the game.
On to pit service: As F-class shooters we have a responsibility to help our fellow shooters out by working with new shooters on how to give good pit service. We also need to tell them why good pit service is important, otherwise they do not have as strong a drive to give good service. I tell shooters to give the same pit service like they would like to get.
I said as F-class shooters we need to work with new shooters because it seems that most of the shooters new to the high power discipline are coming into F-class, at least this is true for the eastern side of Minnesota.
Wind conditions are rarely exactly equal during the course of a match and that may not seem fair except for the fact that the wind could have been bad for relay 2 instead of relay 3 say during match 4. Aggregate scoring tends to even out some of these differences, but if you spend your time analyzing it you will always be able to find one relay that had better conditions during the course of a match. I would rather spend my time trying to learn how to shoot better and in may case that means learning the wind.
If you want to have a completely even playing field I would invite you to come to our Regional Long Range match in Harris MN. I say we have a completely even playing field because like all other matches I know of we follow the correct NRA rules.
I will get off my soapbox,
On to pit service: As F-class shooters we have a responsibility to help our fellow shooters out by working with new shooters on how to give good pit service. We also need to tell them why good pit service is important, otherwise they do not have as strong a drive to give good service. I tell shooters to give the same pit service like they would like to get.
I said as F-class shooters we need to work with new shooters because it seems that most of the shooters new to the high power discipline are coming into F-class, at least this is true for the eastern side of Minnesota.
Wind conditions are rarely exactly equal during the course of a match and that may not seem fair except for the fact that the wind could have been bad for relay 2 instead of relay 3 say during match 4. Aggregate scoring tends to even out some of these differences, but if you spend your time analyzing it you will always be able to find one relay that had better conditions during the course of a match. I would rather spend my time trying to learn how to shoot better and in may case that means learning the wind.
If you want to have a completely even playing field I would invite you to come to our Regional Long Range match in Harris MN. I say we have a completely even playing field because like all other matches I know of we follow the correct NRA rules.
I will get off my soapbox,
xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
I've followed this thread a little. Lots of good stuff thus far.
Here's my take.
I've shot archery competitively for a number of years after getting a little burnt out on silhouette shooting. The indoor NFAA rules do not score the x as any more points. A perfect score in a match is a "300". The x count is usually the determining factor for winning. A 300 55x will win you some local shoots, a 300 57x will get you a state championship in a few states and if you want to win nationals you better shoot a 300 60x both days....which is perfect score...perfect x count.
I say this to make this point....If I'm on the line and I shoot a 299 59x. I shot pretty darn good...actually really good. However, there was one arrow there that did not go where the other 59 did. And it did not score enough points. I lose. The x count is impressive, but the string of shots neccassary to score me points ended at some point in the match.
Shooting a rifle for score should be no different in my opinion. If you have a ten ring and an x....the x is an x. Thats it. Tie breaker. If you have two shooters who get ALL the x's well then you will have a shootoff. Chances are it doens't happen real often.
Either way you look at it, the best of the best will most likely win anyway.
Here's my take.
I've shot archery competitively for a number of years after getting a little burnt out on silhouette shooting. The indoor NFAA rules do not score the x as any more points. A perfect score in a match is a "300". The x count is usually the determining factor for winning. A 300 55x will win you some local shoots, a 300 57x will get you a state championship in a few states and if you want to win nationals you better shoot a 300 60x both days....which is perfect score...perfect x count.
I say this to make this point....If I'm on the line and I shoot a 299 59x. I shot pretty darn good...actually really good. However, there was one arrow there that did not go where the other 59 did. And it did not score enough points. I lose. The x count is impressive, but the string of shots neccassary to score me points ended at some point in the match.
Shooting a rifle for score should be no different in my opinion. If you have a ten ring and an x....the x is an x. Thats it. Tie breaker. If you have two shooters who get ALL the x's well then you will have a shootoff. Chances are it doens't happen real often.
Either way you look at it, the best of the best will most likely win anyway.
I think things should stay as is and I'll tell you why. I look at it like the main goal is to get them into the 10 ring, picture the 10 ring being a gong. If you drop a 9, you wouldn't here that gong ring, it would be a miss.
At our local match's we shoot 40 rounds for score and a perfect score would be a 200 40X.
On Sunday I took second place with a 199 33X, the winner had a 200 30 X. Do I feel like I should have won it? No, I had one shot that missed that prized golden ring, only by .060 inch, and it opened up my group greater than his.
I can see your point on making the X ring count as point's but the only fair way to modify that would be to make the X ring points higher than all the rest.
Oh and we could add a little .25 MOA star in the center of the X ring for tie breaker's.
At our local match's we shoot 40 rounds for score and a perfect score would be a 200 40X.
On Sunday I took second place with a 199 33X, the winner had a 200 30 X. Do I feel like I should have won it? No, I had one shot that missed that prized golden ring, only by .060 inch, and it opened up my group greater than his.
I can see your point on making the X ring count as point's but the only fair way to modify that would be to make the X ring points higher than all the rest.
Oh and we could add a little .25 MOA star in the center of the X ring for tie breaker's.
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