Should F-class Xs score points (11)?

[6BRinNZ]

What are your views - IMO it seems crazy that a shooter can score more X's and still loose the match.

Nationally I have seen shooters score 20 more centrals and come second.

F-open/F-tr etc seem odd in that the scoring is working on the assumption that everyone is shooting in the same conditions and have an equally fast marker. This is far from reality.

If X's were given their own score this would allow a good shooter to even out the conditions, in that you could claw back points with more centrals. I also wonder if this approach would open F-open up to more calibers as inherently accurate cartridges could have a good chance against pure ballistics.

 

[Immike]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think it's as good as it gets now. When not to shoot is as important as the best rifle! You must know your limits and not let the rifle shoot for you!

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think it's as good as it gets now. When not to shoot is as important as the best rifle! You must know your limits and not let the rifle shoot for you!

I read an article on this site where Danny Biggs came second (?) but had 10 more x's. Over here the National F-open champ lost the queens final but had 20 more centrals. So I'm not talking about me or my abilities.

 

[Immike]

Re: Should Xs score points?

It takes alot of self control to get thru long strings of fire. It not easy and why fclass is so popular! I personally like windy matches to get the equipment race out of the equation or at least give me a fair chance!

 

[jbpmidas]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I like it the way it is! I am biased because I never have high X counts anyway. The reason is, if I am in the 10 ring, I'm not changing anything just to try to get an X. I'll keep my hold the same until something else changes it.

 

[Steve Blair]

Re: Should Xs score points?

Mike is right, it's about damage control. The shooter who wins is the one that makes the least mistakes. X count is great but I'll take a 10 any day. Attached is the F-Open final from the Berger Nationals, by score. The X's follow fairly well with score. There are a few variances and I am one of them. My X count is a little low for the score. But, I kept them in the 10 ring. Tony Robertson is probably a better shooter than me (we shot the team matches together) and had a 20% higher X count. But, I had five more points. Maybe it was the conditions on different relays but that is the chance we all take.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

Mike is right, it's about damage control. The shooter who wins is the one that makes the least mistakes. X count is great but I'll take a 10 any day. Attached is the F-Open final from the Berger Nationals, by score. The X's follow fairly well with score. There are a few variances and I am one of them. My X count is a little low for the score. But, I kept them in the 10 ring. Tony Robertson is probably a better shooter than me (we shot the team matches together) and had a 20% higher X count. But, I had five more points. Maybe it was the conditions on different relays but that is the chance we all take.

Mistakes - This is true - and applies if shooters shot at the same time.

Different relays - this is at the heart of my opinion. Should the higher x count be rewarded as the leveller between conditions?

 

[Steve Blair]

Re: Should Xs score points?

We already reward shooters with a higher X count, they win if there is a tie score. How about if I shot a 200-0X at 1000 and someone else shot a 190-10X? Should they win? I don't think so. The other shooter made ten mistakes and I made none.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

We already reward shooters with a higher X count, they win if there is a tie score. How about if I shot a 200-0X at 1000 and someone else shot a 190-10X? Should they win? I don't think so. The other shooter made ten mistakes and I made none.

I agree if you shot at the same time, however if they shot in very difficult conditions and you didn't then who should win? That window of good conditions where they collected 10 xs would be a good leveller.

Anyways not arguing just interested in opinions - there is much debate going on over here.

 

[Steve Blair]

Re: Should Xs score points?

Well, I've been on the short end of the situation you describe and that is just the luck of the draw. It could just as easily have gone my way.

 

[Immike]

Re: Should Xs score points?

It's not a perfect world and how boring would that be? You must love the struggle of competition to be a competitor!

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

It's not a perfect world and how boring would that be? You must love the struggle of competition to be a competitor!

Clawing back points for x's would have meant there was only a couple of points between them - going into a final that would have left the winners circle wide open. As it stands now the shooter with 190-10x has no chance of winning even though they may have shot exceptionally well for the condition on that relay.

Sleepygator - yeah you win some loose some but most sports seem to work to even the luck of the draw out. The current scoring system seems to work on the assumption that all are shooting at the same time.

 

[ReedG]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think it comes under the "it is what it is" heading. In "point-blank" BR, a shooter can shoot 249 with 24X and lose to a shooter with 250 1X. First we count the 10s, then the Xs ...

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think it comes under the "it is what it is" heading. In "point-blank" BR, a shooter can shoot 249 with 24X and lose to a shooter with 250 1X. First we count the 10s, then the Xs ...

What is the reasoning for doing it that way? Why are x's only used for count back and have no value otherwise? I know it is what it is but in the context of the way shooting matches are run - there appears to be a much better approach. So far I haven't heard anything to counter. As mentioned there is much debate over here so I am interested in peoples views.

 

[ReedG]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think that back when score shooting started it probably was not the "X" game it is today and it was more important to shoot 10s. Actually, you can't shoot an X without shooting a 10 so shooting more Xs will always win unless you "open" and shoot something less than a 10. Then the shooter who has more 10s will win because he is the best shooter. In that scenario, the best shooter will win even if he doesn't have the most Xs because he will have the most 10s.

e.g.: 250 with 1X is 25 10s; 249 with 24X is only 24 10s. Who cares how many Xs you have if you poop one out into 9-land?

 

[Bob3700]

Re: Should Xs score points?

The whole issue is not about being "FAIR" it is about the person who reads the conditions the best. The person who makes the least amount of mistakes (shoots out of the 10 ring) will be the one rewarded.

Typically, the person with the best score (points) is going to also be a high X count. It would be rare to have a low score and very high X count.

I have seen some really good scores with high X counts in conditions that were WAY BEYOND my skill set. Good for that competitor, they were the best on that day. To the victor goes the spoils.

Bob

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

The whole issue is not about being "FAIR" it is about the person who reads the conditions the best. The person who makes the least amount of mistakes (shoots out of the 10 ring) will be the one rewarded.

Typically, the person with the best score (points) is going to also be a high X count. It would be rare to have a low score and very high X count.

I have seen some really good scores with high X counts in conditions that were WAY BEYOND my skill set. Good for that competitor, they were the best on that day. To the victor goes the spoils.

Bob

Thanks Bob

IMO The logic of who makes the least mistakes doesn't stand when you aren't shooting in the same conditions, but I can see what the rules as they stand now are getting at.

I am curious as to why it is decided that going from a 10 ring to a 9 ring is a mistake but going from an x ring to a 10 ring isn't.

 

[Steve Blair]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think if it was "fair" based shooters would shoot at the same time. The logic of who makes the least mistakes doesn't stand when you aren't shooting in the same conditions.

I am curious as to why it is decided that going from a 10 ring to a 9 ring is a mistake but going from an x ring to a 10 ring isn't.

[br]
IF there are enough shooters present, the match director will usually group the High Masters on one relay, Masters next, etc. This is an attempt to "even the playing field." It is not always possible. [br]
As noted earlier, an X is still a 10, but a 9 is less, therefore, a mistake. An X is really a special case of 10 to allow for tie breaking.

 

[Immike]

Re: Should Xs score points?

It's hard to make the world round, I do my best to make things fair. My match is set up for exactly for why you see this. I roll the dice to see who goes first then they go last! It's very hard to start a race and start every-one at the same time. Run a match and tell us how to do it.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Re: Should Xs score points?

I think if it was "fair" based shooters would shoot at the same time. The logic of who makes the least mistakes doesn't stand when you aren't shooting in the same conditions.

I am curious as to why it is decided that going from a 10 ring to a 9 ring is a mistake but going from an x ring to a 10 ring isn't.

[br]
IF there are enough shooters present, the match director will usually group the High Masters on one relay, Masters next, etc. This is an attempt to "even the playing field." It is not always possible. [br]
As noted earlier, an X is still a 10, but a 9 is less, therefore, a mistake. An X is really a special case of 10 to allow for tie breaking.

Yeah this makes a lot of sense.