The seating plug on my seating die contacts the bullet on the tip not on the ogive of long slender bullets like Hornady ELD Match. Is this an issue? I would think this would not be beneficial in keeping the bullet concentric and may cause damage to bullet tip.
Should a seating plug plug push against the bullet ogive?
- Thread starter Ralph Littlefield
- Start date
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Like standard seater stems, VLD seating stems also push on the bullet way out near the nose...there is little difference in the contact point on the bullet nose between regular/standard and VLD seater stems. The difference between the two lies primarily in the shape and depth of the cavity in the seater stem; a VLD stem allows room for the bullet nose in order to seat bullets without the meplat "bottoming out", thereby changing the seating depth and potentially damaging the bullet meplat/nose.
The OP is asking why a seater stem doesn't contact much farther down on the bullet, i.e. very close to the point where the ogive first contacts the rifling. The answer has to do with engineering. Think about the role played by the narrowest (limiting) diameter section within a seating die and its relationship to bullet diameter. Trying to engineer a seating die stem that fits all the way down close and contacts to push the bullet solely at the point where it first contacts the rifling is not as simple as it might seem, given the cavity diameter hardly gives much room for the stem in that region of the die. To complicate matters, the stem would be trying to push against a bullet surface almost parallel with its sides, something almost guaranteed to give significant seating depth variance.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but to do it "correctly" would likely require some pretty major [bullet-specific] restrictions in the stem cavity itself, which might severely limit the general usefulness of the die, or force users to buy different die stems specific for each bullet they intended to use, something most die manufacturers aren't going to bother with. The idea is not a bad one at all, it's just not as simple to accomplish as it might seem. We currently are able to get around the issue of bullet length variance between the seating die stem contact point and where the bullet first contacts the lands by using a tool such as Bob Green's comparator, length sorting, and/or buying high quality bullets that have less dimensional variance in this region.
The OP is asking why a seater stem doesn't contact much farther down on the bullet, i.e. very close to the point where the ogive first contacts the rifling. The answer has to do with engineering. Think about the role played by the narrowest (limiting) diameter section within a seating die and its relationship to bullet diameter. Trying to engineer a seating die stem that fits all the way down close and contacts to push the bullet solely at the point where it first contacts the rifling is not as simple as it might seem, given the cavity diameter hardly gives much room for the stem in that region of the die. To complicate matters, the stem would be trying to push against a bullet surface almost parallel with its sides, something almost guaranteed to give significant seating depth variance.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but to do it "correctly" would likely require some pretty major [bullet-specific] restrictions in the stem cavity itself, which might severely limit the general usefulness of the die, or force users to buy different die stems specific for each bullet they intended to use, something most die manufacturers aren't going to bother with. The idea is not a bad one at all, it's just not as simple to accomplish as it might seem. We currently are able to get around the issue of bullet length variance between the seating die stem contact point and where the bullet first contacts the lands by using a tool such as Bob Green's comparator, length sorting, and/or buying high quality bullets that have less dimensional variance in this region.
I solved the issue by using the seating plug from a smaller caliber die set.
I'm going to try the 243 seating plug in my 6.5 CM it looks like it will do the trick.
Edit to add
Nix that. The outside diameter is smaller and does not get lateral support from the die body.
I'm going to try the 243 seating plug in my 6.5 CM it looks like it will do the trick.
Edit to add
Nix that. The outside diameter is smaller and does not get lateral support from the die body.
Last edited:
sqrlgtr
Gold $$ Contributor
If I’m understanding this right cant you just drill the seating stem out a little to allow more room for bullet tip???Then the seating stem will also play well with other Bullets also.Me thinks that die manufactures should be able to do this without having to sell you a “vld” stem..
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
YES!! Works for me.
YES!! Works for me.
Good idea! Worst that could happen is that I have to buy a new seater stem/plug.
Thanks guys, but I'm a little embarrassed that I did not think of it myself!
you can certainly modify your existing seater stem without forking out more folded stuff. i usually drill mine out on a lathe which is a little better than a drill press, you dont want to damage the outside diameter as its a close fit in most dies, eg. redding comp seater. while the stem is mounted in the lathe and centred up you can sacrifice a projectile that is mostly used, put it in the chuck with some extra fine lapping paste on the area which will contact the seater and lap the stem to suit the projectile. this will greatly reduce seater stem marks on the proj nose and reduce projectile run-out. make sure you dont use excessive neck tension as this can also cause damage to seater step outside diameter which can cause them to stick, eg. in a redding comp seater also. hope this helps a bit. Pete
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Deepening the hole in a seating die stem so that the longer nose/meplat of VLD-type bullets doesn't bottom out is part of what has already been done to commercial "VLD" seater stems. You can certainly drill the cavity deeper in a standard die at home to accomplish that with relative ease. However, that may not be the only difference between standard and "VLD" commercial seating die stems. Commercial "VLD" stems commonly have also had the bevel or lip on the inside of the mouth of the seating stem ground down to better match the larger ogive radius of VLD bullets, something that is not quite so easy to do as effectively at home. As has been mentioned, the use of a hot glue gun is one way to make a "drilled out" standard seating die match/fit the ogive radius of a VLD bullet a little better. For me personally, the cost of commercial replacement VLD stems is typically not so high as to make the extra effort worth it. YMMV.
But it hurts nothing for die makers to go ahead and drill seater plugs deeper -for ANY bullet tip or plug. They don't have to change any taper to do that, just provide way more clearance for tips.
We don't need special VLD seater plugs for our bullets that are not VLDs but longer in noses. We don't even need them for VLDs. We just need the clearance issued put to rest forever.
We don't need special VLD seater plugs for our bullets that are not VLDs but longer in noses. We don't even need them for VLDs. We just need the clearance issued put to rest forever.
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