Should a bullet seating die make any contact with neck?

[falconpilot]

As stated, should seating die make an contact with the neck of the case after it's size and while seating bullet? Should'nt the case sleeve be what keeps the case straight for zero runout?

I've got a seating dies that will actually crimp the top of the necks just a little while seating bullets on some, but not all cases. These resulted in obvious different neck tensions.

 

[BoydAllen]

Some one piece threaded seating dies are designed to crimp necks while seating bullets if they are set up low enough in the press. With these, you set them up about the thickness of a nickel above the shell holder when the ram is at the highest point of its travel.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

It doesn't seem to make sense that the die would touch the neck while the bullet is seated. I would have guessed the result you are seeing.

 

[johara1]

Jim, I would assume this is a press die and from what i read the die is set too low. No big deal just back it off a little and add. your seater stem down for seating depth. Run out is better with a Wilson type die made from your chamber reamer,but i don't really think it is needed, when chambered you only have a few tenths bigger free bore diameter …… jim O'Hara

 

[fguffey]

The seating die does not support the case, first adjust the seating die to crimp or not to crimp then adjust the seating stem height. It is possible to make transfers to adjust the seating die. Most helpful when adjusting the bullet off the lands.

F. Guffey

 

[lpreddick]

is the seating die a lee? my lee seaters will crimp if in too much. my reddings and forsters don't.

 

[25AI260]

I've got a seating dies that will actually crimp the top of the necks just a little while seating bullets on some, but not all cases.

it seems all your cases are not the same length... i would fix that before adjusting the die... which you would have to do anyway..
just my 2cts. hope it helps

 

[falconpilot]

Here is what I've found. This is a Whidden seating die. First, the die is screwed up to the last two threads now, and it'll still crimp a neck every so often. I'm using this in my Forster coax press.

Using pin gauges, a .312 will drop through barely and a .313 will not. Most of my loaded rounds using 180 hybrids measure .312. This is a no turn neck, so brass isn't turned. I believe what I'm getting here are some loaded rounds measuring a little bit bigger than other because of 1) bigger pressure rings on some bullets(don't believe this is the case as I'm using same lot of bullets on all these reloads), 2) some of the cases neck measure thicker than the others-all cases where fireformed using exact same powder load, but i used S175, S180, and Berger 180vlds mixture while fire forming...

Anyways...cure to my problem..ordered a .315 reamer, and opened up the neck of the die a little.. Now, they seat like butter. If I find a case in which the seating pressure is even the least bit harder(and it's very easy to feel differences now) , I put it in the "sighter row". Run out on loaded rounds are still the same it seems. I can REALLY feel how the bullet is seating now.

Makes me wonder if for years now I've been using seating die's that where neck clearance has been too tight and attributing to a "hard seating bullet". I'll admit that this is the first year that I've annealed after every firing(love my Bench Source!!), so I know that makes a big difference in seating pressures as well. Food for thought..

 

[savagedasher]

As stated, should seating die make an contact with the neck of the case after it's size and while seating bullet? Should'nt the case sleeve and should be what keeps the case straight for zero runout?

I've got a seating dies that will actually crimp the top of the necks just a little while seating bullets on some, but not all cases. These resulted in obvious different neck tensions.

The reason some do and the others don't is because all the cases aren't the same OAL. Larry

 

[amlevin]

The seating die does not support the case, first adjust the seating die to crimp or not to crimp then adjust the seating stem height. It is possible to make transfers to adjust the seating die. Most helpful when adjusting the bullet off the lands.

F. Guffey

Have you ever used a Bonanza/Forster seating die? This die most assuredly does support the case. Ditto for the Hornady New Dimension Custom Grade seating dies.

The only part of the case you don't want "supported" is the neck as inserting the bullet causes the neck to expand varying amounts (as decided by the individual).

Supporting the case so it's as close to perfect to it's axis, as well as holding the bullet in a similar orientation while being inserted, leads to as close to perfect a finished round one can expect. Nothing is left to chance with this style of seating die.

 

[BoydAllen]

Falconpilot,
Thanks for the followup and the additional information. I have a semi-custom arbor press seater that is a smidge (note precise language;-) tighter in the neck than my .262 chamber. and in the past when I was mistakenly running minimal neck clearance, and I would seat a bullet with a large pressure ring, I have had to pry the loaded round out of the seater. More recently, I have taken the advice of my benchrest betters and I am running more neck clearance between loaded round and chamber and this has gone away. It seems to me that if you have a really good fit with the case body in an arbor press, or sliding sleeve threaded seater that close neck clearance may be much less important, or even detremental, if it is too close. Manufacturers are caught in the middle, trying to guess the probable use that their dies will be put to. How does your no turn's accuracy compare with a turned neck? What kind of chamber neck to cartridge neck clearance are you running?

 

[falconpilot]

Boyd,

I've found my no turns to shoot just as well as turned necks. Course, I've shooting F-Class and not IBS, so you accurate and mine are probably different. My Dasher will turn in 1-2" groups at 600 if I do it right. My 7 Walker is pretty consistent in the 2-2.5" range at 600. My reamer is a .317 neck..loaded rounds are .312-.313. I'm using a .311 bushing, so I know that neck tension will vary a little between the 312 and 313' but I feel it'll be much better now that the seating die isn't crimping any of my rounds. If a reloader finds different feeling seating tensions, look and make sure that you seating die isn't crimping your already sized necks.

Jim

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks for the specifics. Is that with the newest blue box brass? If you don't mind, what bullet and throat length do you favor, and were does that put the bullets in the case neck, touching?

 

[falconpilot]

I'm loading for my 7 Walker. It blue box brass. Berger Hybrid 180, .212 freebore, seated right above neck shoulder junction touching. I've found zero donut issues with any of my brass.

Dasher is a .273 neck, .124 freebore, 105 Hybrid, seat .008 into lands. The bullet is seated a little in case if you jump them very far , but this freebore seems to work well for about any 105-108 bullet.

 

[BoydAllen]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 7 Walker, and what velocity are you getting?

 

[falconpilot]

7 Walker = 284 AI

180 hybrid at 2940 with 53.5 H4350 or 2994 fps with 54.5 grs

 

[BoydAllen]

Is it very different than the Shehane? What is the die situation?

 

[falconpilot]

Boyd,

Send me your private email and I'll email you the reamer print. About like a Shehane as far as taper blown out, but shoulders are blown to 40 degree's. Round has shown to be very capable for me thus far. Several really good shooters in Texas are running it. Mark Walker from Houston area came up with it, thus 7 Walker. Easy to load for, seems to shoot about anything well, while a good round is deadly! Seems to have several node ranges. 2850-2870 is first, very easy on the brass(whole reason for choosing this over a straight 284), second node seems to be 2930-2940 range where it's not not hard on your brass, and 2980-3000 which makes your brass scream in pain ;D

Whidden generally has dies in stock for it..

 

[BoydAllen]

PM sent. Thanks for the additional info. Sounds interesting. What length barrel and twist?