ShotMarker

[sfinn1]

I have a question for Match directors using ShotMarker.
Are most of you using .308 as caliber on all targets for your match?
I have been using .308 as many shooters don't know how to make that change or even those that can forget to.

Like to hear from you,
Steve Finnell
MCRC

 

[rardoin]

FWIW the matches I have shot at using E-targets have defaulted to .308 cal for all shooters.

 

[F Class John]

I'd say .308 nearly 100% of the time at 100% of the matches I shoot at (which is four ranges including the one I run). I've done my fair share of comparisons using random targets at matches (just for fun while not shooting OR on my actual range unit which I have access to over a 1000 targets) and then changing the calibers and there's virtually no difference in score. Nobody shooting TR is gonna care since 99.999% are using .308 anyway and for open the difference from .284 to .308 is less than the statistical variance of the e-target itself so it's a bit of a wash. That being said, there IS a difference at some point out of hundreds of targets but .308 makes it a level playing field, and much simpler for MDs so they can focus on what matters at a match compared to the alternative of everyone causing havoc inside the system chaining calibers all over the place. I've seen that scenario and it's not pretty.

 

[sdean]

I'd say .308 nearly 100% of the time at 100% of the matches I shoot at (which is four ranges including the one I run). I've done my fair share of comparisons using random targets at matches (just for fun while not shooting OR on my actual range unit which I have access to over a 1000 targets) and then changing the calibers and there's virtually no difference in score. Nobody shooting TR is gonna care since 99.999% are using .308 anyway and for open the difference from .284 to .308 is less than the statistical variance of the e-target itself so it's a bit of a wash. That being said, there IS a difference at some point out of hundreds of targets but .308 makes it a level playing field, and much simpler for MDs so they can focus on what matters at a match compared to the alternative of everyone causing havoc inside the system chaining calibers all over the place. I've seen that scenario and it's not pretty.

At 600yds plenty 6mm. Statistacal variance goes both ways I would think. How many more things will average themselves out. Still beats the hell out of pit duty in 100' heat. Something to think about.

 

[Drolds72]

I am happy to give up the statistical advantage of .5mm or so vs having to have a delay because somebody got into the wrong setting and did something they weren’t suppose to. Nothing like watching a guy think he just shot his best ever or a national record, as the target gets changed back to F-Class from a sling target.

 

[saunaking]

 

[Drolds72]

View attachment 1267036

How many X’s did you shoot at that basketball? 27? Hey- you took it very well when they switched it back!

 

[Longtrain]

Our club’s MD has everyone change the caliber per shooter. Although I like the everyone a 308, may make somethings easier. Early on, a few F Class guys set the world on fire shooting at a sling target in FClass…then oops, back to reality.

 

[dcali]

The way I see it, keeping it the same for everyone is best way to go. The idea is to get the center of the bullet into the center of the target. The CMP uses a .308 plug for everything (if I'm not mistaken) for this reason. Just looking at the hole to see if it clips the line seems like a convenience that gets us away from what it ought to be, granting a very slight advantage to bigger bullets for no good reason.

The shotmarker tells us where the center of the bullet hits. The caliber is just an abstraction that seeks to simulate the paper target rule, which is going backwards if you ask me.

Plus, it's simpler.

I don't know what the official rule is, but that makes the most sense to me.

 

[sdean]

The way I see it, keeping it the same for everyone is best way to go. The idea is to get the center of the bullet into the center of the target. The CMP uses a .308 plug for everything (if I'm not mistaken) for this reason. Just looking at the hole to see if it clips the line seems like a convenience that gets us away from what it ought to be, granting a very slight advantage to bigger bullets for no good reason.

The shotmarker tells us where the center of the bullet hits. The caliber is just an abstraction that seeks to simulate the paper target rule, which is going backwards if you ask me.

Plus, it's simpler.

I don't know what the official rule is, but that makes the most sense to me.

Not sure where you are getting these center of the hole rules. But for score it is the outside of the bullet hole and outside of the ring. And yes all things equal a larger hole has an advantage. If you want it some other way shoot UBR.

 

[Medic505]

They aren't 0.5mm accurate anyway, so what difference does it make?

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Well, the IFCRA rules suggest that all bullet holes are gauged at .308, regardless of calbre used, so..

1. F12.7. When a shot touches the line between two divisions of the target, the competitor will be credited with the higher value. In case of doubt a gauge of 7.82mm diameter (=0.308 inches) will be used (regardless of the actual calibre in use) to determine the value of the shot. The ruling by a Butt Officer will be final.

 

[Stingray]

We change calibers for what we are shooting. It's not that difficult. We announce at the beginning of the match that shooters should change to the caliber they are shooting. If someone doesn't know how then I will do it as I show them how to do it. I may suggest printing a small slip with the instructions to give those who have a question. I could also be given to someone who asked for help as a reminder.
At first we had difficulties but at our last tournament with 30 shooters only one person needed help.
Rp

 

[ttfreestyle]

Say your using 12 shotmarker targets for your match, when one competitor changes his target to .264 does it change all 12 or his individual target only?

 

[sdean]

They aren't 0.5mm accurate anyway, so what difference does it make?

None. Good point.

 

[dcali]

Not sure where you are getting these center of the hole rules. But for score it is the outside of the bullet hole and outside of the ring. And yes all things equal a larger hole has an advantage. If you want it some other way shoot UBR.

It’s a CMP rule (or it was. I believe it still is) They recognize that the caliber shouldn’t matter and that all holes are scored with the same plug. It’s more fair that way in my opinion.

 

[PatMiles]

Say your using 12 shotmarker targets for your match, when one competitor changes his target to .264 does it change all 12 or his individual target only?

Only your target, each are independent.

 

[dskogman]

We change the bullet size and at 300 it makes a difference in X count and once in a while 9/10’s. At 600 it’s less and at 1K hardly ever.
Personally I’d rather just keep it 308 so the technically challenged don’t F things up.

 

[ttfreestyle]

Only your target, each are independent.

Thanks.

 

[memilanuk]

A few local clubs have been using .284 as the default to average things out between .224, 6/6.5/7 mm and .30 cal. Seems to work well enough, and nobody has complained...