Shoots Smaller Smk 77 verses 80 smk?

[ELR LVR]

69 Tipped match king (they just love to shoot well,
10 shot groups = All bullets touching
saw not much advantage going to the 77's other than BC if using past 600 yds
the 69's shoot great out to 600)
or
Berger 85.5 = tiny groups at 600
------------------------------------------
best groups I ever shot in .224 were with JLK 80's (1.25" at 600)
the berger 85.5 so far is the only bullet I've found that performs as well as the JLK

 

[urbanrifleman]

Great posts. Thank you all so much.

One note. My wife will not shoot light bullets any more. With our horrible winds here she says it's stupid. Hahaha

 

[SKWERLZ]

Worth noting; The Hornady 75g is a hidden gem. They're dirt cheap for a target bullet, and my favorite mag length bullet

It and the old 140BTHP were a great and affordable option.

 

[SKWERLZ]

The 80 grain SMK isn't designed to feed from an AR-15 magazine. They are loaded long and fed one at a time at the 600-yard stage in service rifle tournaments. OAL's around 2.470" from a .223 Wylde chamber, around 2.550" from a 5.56mm NATO chamber.

If you have a bolt action, the longer OAL" will probably feed and function just fine.

I get my best groups using 52/53 grain match bullets, even when fired through 1:7 twist barrels. Nobody can tell you in advance what your rifle will like. You are going to have to experiment to find out. Every barrel is an individual, some will shoot lots of different bullets well, some will be picky and need a particular brand bullet and weight to shine.

It awesome and fits great into a magazine in 22ARC.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ok the 223 ISSF cheap long range plinker project has begun. I loaded the first AR COMP 80 smk loads. I jammed them 8 thou from touch.

I made my wife, my friend and myself matching 7 twist 223 ISSF 169 fb barrels. Time to break them in!

 

[Evlshnngns]

Ok the 223 ISSF cheap long range plinker project has begun. I loaded the first AR COMP 80 smk loads. I jammed them 8 thou from touch.

I made my wife, my friend and myself matching 7 twist 223 ISSF 169 fb barrels. Time to break them in!

Anybody who enjoys long range should have a heavy, fast twist 223. Three matching setups would be a good time. Let us know how they do with the same load in 3 guns.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Anybody who enjoys long range should have a heavy, fast twist 223. Three matching setups would be a good time. Let us know how they do with the same load in 3 guns.

I agree. 100 percent. 100 percent!!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Anybody who enjoys long range should have a heavy, fast twist 223. Three matching setups would be a good time. Let us know how they do with the same load in 3 guns.

To make it a true plinking text I'm using WCC brass that was processed by my friend Lee Odom on his auto Dillons. CCI 450 primers.



This is the first batch. I threw powder with my RCBS and seated with my LE WILSON seater in the Harrell's arbor press. They actually seated wonderfully. Be sure to use a VLD inside neck reamer.




Even using brass from the bucket, seating depths held less than a thou of varariance.

 

[mac86951]

thought for the 80 and 77. i was having trouble with some bullets (77s) seating crooked in cases (think wobble on concentricity) probably due to my old many shots fired brass. I acquired a sinclair concentricity gauge and sorted the loads after seating based on concentricity and voila; really good groups for the lowest runout. If you jump the bullets, this might be something to look at. 77 and 80 are long bullets for that short neck!

having found and measured the issue; now i just lay the cases on the side and roll them while watching the meplat.

-Mac

 

[padom]

thought for the 80 and 77. i was having trouble with some bullets (77s) seating crooked in cases (think wobble on concentricity) probably due to my old many shots fired brass. I acquired a sinclair concentricity gauge and sorted the loads after seating based on concentricity and voila; really good groups for the lowest runout. If you jump the bullets, this might be something to look at. 77 and 80 are long bullets for that short neck!

having found and measured the issue; now i just lay the cases on the side and roll them while watching the meplat.

-Mac

I would sort out why your bullets are so crooked in the case in the first place and fix that.... I dont have any rounds with this issue...

 

[SKWERLZ]

Anybody who enjoys long range should have a heavy, fast twist 223. Three matching setups would be a good time. Let us know how they do with the same load in 3 guns.

22ARC at 805 yards.

80 SMK

rumble.com

 

[urbanrifleman]

thought for the 80 and 77. i was having trouble with some bullets (77s) seating crooked in cases (think wobble on concentricity) probably due to my old many shots fired brass. I acquired a sinclair concentricity gauge and sorted the loads after seating based on concentricity and voila; really good groups for the lowest runout. If you jump the bullets, this might be something to look at. 77 and 80 are long bullets for that short neck!

having found and measured the issue; now i just lay the cases on the side and roll them while watching the meplat.

-Mac

Bullet runnout is 97 percent crooked brass.

 

[padom]

Bullet runnout is 97 percent crooked brass.

Yep.

And this is usually because of the sizing method..

 

[urbanrifleman]

Yep.

And this is usually because of the sizing method..

From my experience meausring run out back in the day, I think crooked brass is made crooked. From the factory. It has residual stresses in it, and shooting cycles of hot and cold don't improve it.

Again, from my experience, good brass is straight, and crap brass is crooked.

 

[padom]

From my experience meausring run out back in the day, I think crooked brass is made crooked. From the factory. It has residual stresses in it, and shooting cycles of hot and cold don't improve it.

Again, from my experience, good brass is straight, and crap brass is crooked.

Virgin brass, yes. This is why companies like Forster tell people not to measure runout with their seating dies if your seating in virgin brass, measure runout in fired brass after its first firing..

The reason being, that brass is blowing out in the chamber when fired.. so its not going to stay crooked once it blows out...

Ive tested this extensively in 223rem specifically. Take any 223/5.56 virgin brass and measure both OD and ID neck runout. Your higher end brass is better than others but still has runout most of the time...

Now fire that brass and measure the fired brasses OD and ID runout on something like a 21st Century or AccuracyOne concentricity gauge. Its going to be less.....

This is also a good way to see whats inducing the runout. Because if you measure that brass after firing and you have good numbers, then you size and measure again and your runout is greater, you know its your sizing process inducing the runout. Then you can measure bullet and neck OD runout again after seating..

I dont recommend doing this with all your loading, but its a good exercise to see where your runout is coming from... Especially if its so bad your bullets are wobbling when rolling on a table. Thats a lot of runout to have bullets wobbling that badly.

I size all my rounds with a LE Wilson FL Bushing die bumping shoulder and squeezing necks down 0.004 under loaded bullet diameter. I then run them through a 21st Century TiN mandrel to open them back up 0.002 for a final 0.002 neck tension. i do this for all my precision rifle brass. My TIR on my 21st Century Concentricity gauge is 0.0005-0.001...

Now, i also did a test many years ago where accuracy downrange on target did not change with TIR measuring as much as 0.006.. So Im not sure what the TIR number is that it starts affecting accuracy....

 

[urbanrifleman]

Virgin brass, yes. This is why companies like Forster tell people not to measure runout with their seating dies if your seating in virgin brass, measure runout in fired brass after its first firing..

The reason being, that brass is blowing out in the chamber when fired.. so its not going to stay crooked once it blows out...

Ive tested this extensively in 223rem specifically. Take any 223/5.56 virgin brass and measure both OD and ID neck runout. Your higher end brass is better than others but still has runout most of the time...

Now fire that brass and measure the fired brasses OD and ID runout on something like a 21st Century or AccuracyOne concentricity gauge. Its going to be less.....

This is also a good way to see whats inducing the runout. Because if you measure that brass after firing and you have good numbers, then you size and measure again and your runout is greater, you know its your sizing process inducing the runout. Then you can measure bullet and neck OD runout again after seating..

I dont recommend doing this with all your loading, but its a good exercise to see where your runout is coming from... Especially if its so bad your bullets are wobbling when rolling on a table. Thats a lot of runout to have bullets wobbling that badly.

I size all my rounds with a LE Wilson FL Bushing die bumping shoulder and squeezing necks down 0.004 under loaded bullet diameter. I then run them through a 21st Century TiN mandrel to open them back up 0.002 for a final 0.002 neck tension. i do this for all my precision rifle brass. My TIR on my 21st Century Concentricity gauge is 0.0005-0.001...

Now, i also did a test many years ago where accuracy downrange on target did not change with TIR measuring as much as 0.006.. So Im not sure what the TIR number is that it starts affecting accuracy....

I am going to take your recommendation and campaign the 80 SMK for the bulk shooting I have about 2000 at this point, so I plan to shoot them.

We will see how they shoot taking "once fired full auto brass processed on a Dillon" shoots. The brass is all FROM THE SAME LOT. It was "eco Win" ammo that the FBI shot in Quantico and my buddy picked it all up. So its not multiple lots and years.

Then I will shoot some virgin Lapua and see what we see. I know the Lapua will shoot a tic smalller (as I have already done this before) but I bet most people would not see a difference.

 

[padom]

I am going to take your recommendation and campaign the 80 SMK for the bulk shooting I have about 2000 at this point, so I plan to shoot them.

We will see how they shoot taking "once fired full auto brass processed on a Dillon" shoots. The brass is all FROM THE SAME LOT. It was "eco Win" ammo that the FBI shot in Quantico and my buddy picked it all up. So its not multiple lots and years.

Then I will shoot some virgin Lapua and see what we see. I know the Lapua will shoot a tic smalller (as I have already done this before) but I bet most people would not see a difference.

Im sure they will shoot just fine. While I shoot all Lapua in my precision 223's, I process 10's of thousands of LC 1x brass on my dedicated 5.56 fully automated 1050 Dillon for my AR's to load plinking ammo. I use a dedicated brass processing toolhead that deprimes, bumps shoulder and squeezes neck down, trims on press with Dillon RT1500 trimmer and run the 21st Century mandrel through. I tested some a while back in my precision 223 bolt gun and it shot just fine...

Not 80SMK but here some testing I did with the 1xLC I processed on my automated dillon with Varget and 77TMK and 70 RDF out 223 bolt gun.

 

[Bamban]

77s and 80s are capable of producing good precision and pinpoint accuracy behind an excellent trigger puller. LC OFB brass bulk processed through D1050. Ammo loaded using RCBS single stage press. 77s from 200 standing through 300 yards prone. 80s at 600. 20 inch Bartlein donated by @FrankG 4.5X March scope. Sling.

 

[jelenko]

77s and 80s are capable of producing good precision and pinpoint accuracy behind an excellent trigger puller. LC OFB brass bulk processed through D1050. Ammo loaded using RCBS single stage press. 77s from 200 standing through 300 yards prone. 80s at 600. 20 inch Bartlein donated by @FrankG 4.5X March scope. Sling.

View attachment 1646621

198 offhand!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here are the 3 matching 223 ISSF 7 twist UR rifles. All Kauger Arms.