Shooting better with a heavy trigger?

[radford56]

I started shooting our local mid-range F-class matches in F/TR using an old Remington 40X .308 barreled action (24" barrel) in an Accuracy International chassis. Nothing fancy, just using a Harris bipod and a rear squeeze bag. Though I haven't measured it lately, I'm sure the rifle has at least a 4.5 pound trigger. I did pretty well and enjoyed the matches so much that I decided to set up a rifle specifically for F/TR. I had a spare Remington 700 action that I had barreled with a 30" medium Palma barrel and I added a Jewell trigger set at approximately a 1lb pull. I got a great deal on an MPA hybrid chassis, got a better bipod and rear bag and figured I had a great set up for the matches.

Unfortunately my scores plunged by an average of 20-30 points with the new rifle. I found myself getting lots of horizontal dispersion - too many 8's and more than a couple of 7's in every match. I blamed them on the wind, but really knew it was me. I kept practicing, but try as I might I couldn't get rid of the horizontal. In every practice session I kept getting unexpected horizontal shots that just drove me crazy.

In frustration, I decided to try replacing the 30" barreled action with the 40X barreled action - heavy trigger and all - to see what happened. I've now fired a couple of practice sessions with the new set up and I'm back to shooting like I was before I got the new rifle. My groups are now one ragged hole at 100 and 200 yards with no horizontal flyers. Believe me, that wasn't the case before.

While I suppose it could be something else that was going on I'm blaming my struggles with the new rifle on the light trigger (and my technique with it?). Am I the only shooter who has struggled going from a heavy trigger to a light one?

 

[Twdmar]

There is possibly some reason for the change trigger effecting you. I had a little trouble shooting standing after going from service rifle to a match rifle. I think with the heavier trigger j was steering the rifle a bit with my finger. Focus on your technique with trigger and keeping good technique. However, I don't think its your technique but sounds to me like the rifle and load not working. Test your load, checking bedding, scope rings, muzzle crown etc.
One thing you can do is aim the rifle and have someone else pull the trigger for you. I do this with junior shooters to help determine if they are jumping on the trigger, flinching etc.

 

[BoydAllen]

A better test would be simply swapping triggers, which is really easy.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I see my heart beat in the scope,more with a chassis stock and long barrel. Same scope with a "regular" stock and 22" varmint contour, I don't see any movement.

 

[RegionRat]

I would suggest you have to be able to call those 8s and 7s, especially if the new rig won’t group at 100 when compared to the old one. And doing as Boyd suggested would answer in short order. A trigger swap isn’t difficult and doesn’t take much in time or tools.

 

[radford56]

I would suggest you have to be able to call those 8s and 7s, especially if the new rig won’t group at 100 when compared to the old one. And doing as Boyd suggested would answer in short order. A trigger swap isn’t difficult and doesn’t take much in time or tools.

Right, swapping the trigger isn't hard - but I left out this part. I need to have the firing pin bushed, so I'm taking the rifle out of commission until that's completed. Swapping the trigger now isn't a good option.

There is possibly some reason for the change trigger effecting you. I had a little trouble shooting standing after going from service rifle to a match rifle. I think with the heavier trigger j was steering the rifle a bit with my finger. Focus on your technique with trigger and keeping good technique. However, I don't think its your technique but sounds to me like the rifle and load not working. Test your load, checking bedding, scope rings, muzzle crown etc.
One thing you can do is aim the rifle and have someone else pull the trigger for you. I do this with junior shooters to help determine if they are jumping on the trigger, flinching etc.

You're right, it may be partly the load that's giving me issues. Once I get the rifle put back together, I'm going to do another load work up and see if that's contributing to my problem.

 

[BoydAllen]

Another thing: You can't just swap barreled actions into the same stock without rebedding if you want the best performance. If you did not, your whole problem could be from a bedding issue. This is just one more instance of what is convenient not being best practice.

 

[DGP4]

A trigger can be lighter and not better, hence you will shoot better with a better but heavier trigger. But if you shoot well with a heavy trigger and replace that trigger with a GOOD lighter trigger you will shoot better.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Changing trigger pull weights can certainly affect your shooting. When I first started shooting F-TR, I was running triggers at just under 1 lb. Over the years, I dropped that down about 2 oz. at a time until I'm somewhere between 8 and 9 oz. currently. Had I done that amount of adjustment all at once (~8 oz.), I know it would have been a problem for me, so I can imagine switching to the Jewell trigger set at 3.5 lb less that the 40X action trigger on the previous rifle could be part of the problem, i.e. a contributing factor. For me personally, adjustments of that ilk are best done in small increments, over time, so I can adjust until reaching a "new normal".

Whether the trigger pull weight is the sole cause of your drop in scores is another story. I would be inclined to doubt that it would cause that great an effect. That many points difference is a lot to blame solely on change in trigger pull weight. As has been mentioned, it sounds like the precision/load may also be part of that mix. Once you have some confidence that the load in the rifle with the lighter trigger pull is working equally well at 100-200 yd as the the load in the 40X setup, then you can start addressing the issue of whether load development was part of the earlier scoring problem. Until you have some idea that the two rifles are shooting equally well at shorter distances where the wind is only a minimal factor, it is much harder to do a direct comparison. It's like pretty much any other experiment, you need to isolate the variable you wish to examine as much as possible. In this case, you're interested in the effect of trigger pull weight, so you need to be confident everything else is as comparable as you can get it to be.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I only have one rifle with a really light trigger and it bothers me sometimes as the shots "sneak" up on me when I'm not ready. I guess if all you ever shot was average triggers you get use to their ways and know what to expect from them.

 

[KY_Windage]

The 1 lb trigger ain't your problem. Sound like either the base is not tight enough on the receiver, or the rings are not tight enough on the base.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I don't think the trigger had anything to do with it. My bet would be the barrel, or the barrel on that particular action. Change one variable at a time, not all the variables except one, the chassis that is. Get your bolt back, try it again. Still a problem? swap triggers. Still a problem, swap barrels. Still a problem, swap actions. Most of us have chased barrels that simply would not shoot and chased it for far too long. It's a lot of work especially swapping barrels to new actions but it is the only way you will isolate the problem.

 

[nickj890]

I’ll throw this out there, with the caveat that I’m shooting a TR with sling. I also live in Canada ( would be glad to change that anyone adopting?) so I shot with a 1.5 kg ( 3.3 lbs) trigger for years. ICFRA changed a few years back and allows 500 grams now for TR.

When I would shoot in the US I would sometimes experiment with a lighter trigger weights, say 1 lb or a little less.

Given how much grip pressure I was used to exerting with my trigger hand (RH) I found it difficult to shoot consistently with the lighter trigger. I either had to lessen my grip pressure to manage the lighter trigger or try to shoot the light trigger with too strong a grip.

I know 3.3 to 1 pound sounds like splitting hairs, but it changed my group size, no doubt from inconsistent grip on a recoiling rifle.

Im not sure if you’re shooting free recoil with your rifle, or some level of grip pressure. If you hang on a bit you may be consciously or unconsciously varying grip with the lighter trigger, which changes the amount of movement under recoil.

if you’re shooting true free recoil.....then I got nothing

Hope that makes sense

 

[jelenko]

shooting a TR with sling

grip pressure

Did you ever experiment with POI vs grip pressure?

I shoot in 'across the course'. I've noticed my grip pressure varies when I'm not paying attention.

Higher grip pressure should cause a lower POI, yes? And, some horizontal - depending on the way the rifle is held by the sling, hand, shoulder - yeah?

Next time at the range, I think I'm going to try 5 shot's with heavy and 5 with light grip pressure.

 

[nickj890]

Did you ever experiment with POI vs grip pressure?

I shoot in 'across the course'. I've noticed my grip pressure varies when I'm not paying attention.

Higher grip pressure should cause a lower POI, yes? And, some horizontal - depending on the way the rifle is held by the sling, hand, shoulder - yeah?

Next time at the range, I think I'm going to try 5 shot's with heavy and 5 with light grip pressure.

Yes I think so as well although I never documented where the fliers went. You could say my “experimentation“ was done subconsciously! Lol

Had I been able to stick with a 1lb trigger I would have eventually developed the habit of a lighter grip, but I think when I switched back and forth unless I concentrated hard, I would vary my grip pressure from shot to shot, or say 3 or 4 shots on a 20 shot string.

Now we can use a 500 gram trigger weight so I don’t have to change any more as I did like the lighter trigger.

Speaking of XTC shooting i did a little of that too in the US with a built M1A and really liked it,

if only I could move.......

 

[jelenko]

M1A is the classic for XTC.
I'm currently using a 'spacegun' - a match rifle built on an AR platform.

 

[radford56]

I started shooting our local mid-range F-class matches in F/TR using an old Remington 40X .308 barreled action (24" barrel) in an Accuracy International chassis. Nothing fancy, just using a Harris bipod and a rear squeeze bag. Though I haven't measured it lately, I'm sure the rifle has at least a 4.5 pound trigger. I did pretty well and enjoyed the matches so much that I decided to set up a rifle specifically for F/TR. I had a spare Remington 700 action that I had barreled with a 30" medium Palma barrel and I added a Jewell trigger set at approximately a 1lb pull. I got a great deal on an MPA hybrid chassis, got a better bipod and rear bag and figured I had a great set up for the matches.

Unfortunately my scores plunged by an average of 20-30 points with the new rifle. I found myself getting lots of horizontal dispersion - too many 8's and more than a couple of 7's in every match. I blamed them on the wind, but really knew it was me. I kept practicing, but try as I might I couldn't get rid of the horizontal. In every practice session I kept getting unexpected horizontal shots that just drove me crazy.

In frustration, I decided to try replacing the 30" barreled action with the 40X barreled action - heavy trigger and all - to see what happened. I've now fired a couple of practice sessions with the new set up and I'm back to shooting like I was before I got the new rifle. My groups are now one ragged hole at 100 and 200 yards with no horizontal flyers. Believe me, that wasn't the case before.

While I suppose it could be something else that was going on I'm blaming my struggles with the new rifle on the light trigger (and my technique with it?). Am I the only shooter who has struggled going from a heavy trigger to a light one?

I thought I'd update this since I made the original post. Turns out, it definitely wasn't the trigger. I installed the Jewell trigger in the 40X action that's now in the MPA chassis. Shot it a couple of times and it shoots better than ever.

Prime suspect is that my load wasn't as good as I thought - at least that's what I'll attack first when I get the rifle put back together.