shellholder- proper fit?

[wolfman]

I have a set of competition shellholders that I find very helpdful to control shoulder bump with my .308 F/Tr loads. I've noticed however, that the case sort of snaps into the shellholder, rather than being a slightly looser fit like all my other shellholders. This seems like a prime chance to induce runout. Did I get a dud set, or are the comp shellholders supposed to be tight?

 

[ireload2]

Cases also vary so you would have to check the brass and the shell holder to know which is at fault.
Before you condemn anything based on theory check to see if you really get more or less run out.
If the shell holder is perfectly concentric with the ram and your die how will it cause run out?

 

[waldo1979]

I prefer using skips die shims for headspace tunning on a single stage press:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...es/skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14--prod33197.aspx

 

[Brians356]

The case may snap past the opening and into place, but once inside the holder, can you not then move it about slightly? It's not rigidly held captive, I'll wager.
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[eric n]

Mine snapped in when they were new also. After the black finish wears a bit they should slide in easier.
I saw no difference in runout either way.

 

[wolfman]

So far I've tried 3 different lots of lapua brass, and they all fit roughly the same. Of the 5 pieces in the set, the one I want to use is the snuggest fit, and leaves a rub mark of brass on the bottom of the shell holder. I'm not making accusations- just asking if others have experienced the same thing.

 

[Brians356]

So far I've tried 3 different lots of lapua brass, and they all fit roughly the same. Of the 5 pieces in the set, the one I want to use is the snuggest fit, and leaves a rub mark of brass on the bottom of the shell holder. I'm not making accusations- just asking if others have experienced the same thing.

It may leave rub marks going in, but can you not wiggle the case around a bit once it's all the way in? It's a simple question.
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[fguffey]

I have a set of competition shellholders that I find very helpdful to control shoulder bump with my .308 F/Tr loads. I've noticed however, that the case sort of snaps into the shellholder, rather than being a slightly looser fit like all my other shellholders. This seems like a prime chance to induce runout. Did I get a dud set, or are the comp shellholders supposed to be tight?

I have shell holders that fit; I have shell holders that fit only where they touch. My favorite shell holder is the loose fitting shell holder. When sizing cases I can size a case to fit a short chamber or a chamber that goes beyond infinity.

What does that mean? It means I can size a case for 28 different length chambers from the shoulder to the bolt face without grinding the base of the die and or grinding the top of the shell holder.

Again, I have shell holders that fit. There is an advantage to using shell holders that fits; but when sizing cases for different length chambers the tight fitting shell holder does not work.

I was asked to help with forming 450 cases for wildcat rifles. I was asked to bring ‘the other’ shell holder’ for the magnum belted case so I dug out a gasket cutting ball peen hammer.

F. Guffey

 

[Brians356]

I have shell holders that fit only where they touch.

That says it all. I think.

Are you familiar with "Professor Irwin Corey"?
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[ireload2]

I can size an infinite number of cases for an infinite number of chambers but it really has nothing to do with this subject.

I have shell holders that fit; I have shell holders that fit only where they touch. My favorite shell holder is the loose fitting shell holder. When sizing cases I can size a case to fit a short chamber or a chamber that goes beyond infinity.

What does that mean? It means I can size a case for 28 different length chambers from the shoulder to the bolt face without grinding the base of the die and or grinding the top of the shell holder.

Again, I have shell holders that fit. There is an advantage to using shell holders that fits; but when sizing cases for different length chambers the tight fitting shell holder does not work.

I was asked to help with forming 450 cases for wildcat rifles. I was asked to bring ‘the other’ shell holder’ for the magnum belted case so I dug out a gasket cutting ball peen hammer.

F. Guffey

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That says it all. I think.

Are you familiar with "Professor Irwin Corey"?
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More like red green. Thats who i see here.

 

[fguffey]

I prefer using skips die shims for headspace tunning on a single stage press:

Waldo1979, before Skip's shims I used shell holders that were loose. I never secured the lock ring to the die, I secured the die to the press with the lock ring and I adjust my die to, or off or below contact with the shell holder. Anything I can accomplish with Skip's shims or Redding Compaction shell holder I can accomplish with the feeler gage and a loose fitting shell holder. My favorite is the RCBS because the case can be raised off the deck of the shell holder .012" on most of them. When sizing cases for short chamber the .012" slack is a must.

F. Guffey

 

[DaveTooley]

So far I've tried 3 different lots of lapua brass, and they all fit roughly the same. Of the 5 pieces in the set, the one I want to use is the snuggest fit, and leaves a rub mark of brass on the bottom of the shell holder. I'm not making accusations- just asking if others have experienced the same thing.

Look closely at the outer edge of the extractor groove on your brass. The Lapua case has a very shallow extractor groove and most shell holders will hold the case up away from the shell holder. Then when you size the brass it flairs the outer edge of the extractor grove on the brass. Solution is to increase the chamfer on the inside top edge and maybe open up the ID of the shell holder slightly.

 

[fguffey]

The Lapua case has a very shallow extractor groove and most shell holders will hold the case up away from the shell holder.

I would suggest the reloader use a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and case head to determine the fit between the case head and the deck of shell holder. When I find a case that will not fit the shell holder I always suspect the case was hammered with a heavy load.

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

If the shell holder is perfectly concentric with the ram and your die how will it cause run out?

That's a pretty big "IF". How? Tolerance stack up- between the press ram, shell holder, threaded interface on top of the press, the die itself.

 

[waldo1979]

Waldo1979, before Skip's shims I used shell holders that were loose. I never secured the lock ring to the die, I secured the die to the press with the lock ring and I adjust my die to, or off or below contact with the shell holder. Anything I can accomplish with Skip's shims or Redding Compaction shell holder I can accomplish with the feeler gage and a loose fitting shell holder. My favorite is the RCBS because the case can be raised off the deck of the shell holder .012" on most of them. When sizing cases for short chamber the .012" slack is a must.

F. Guffey

I've used feller gauges before, it works well. Not having a cam over is another big point of contention for some people. Which is why some people prefer the shell holders.

I use a Dillon 550B with a Whidden floating tool head for most of my loading now. I also have a Harold's for more precise work but my time is scarce. Adjust once, leave it alone, better consistency. No shims or shell holders.

 

[ireload2]

It is not that big of an "IF".
How has he been reloading other stuff on that press without complaining here first? If everything was new and being used for the first time you could suspect the press. But if he has been using it a while you are barking up the wrong tree.
Please explain the tolerance stack up off all that hardware when he seems to have isolated the problem to brass? Good manufacturing practice says that the manufacturer of the press will attempt to bore the ram bore and the press mounting threads at the same time. That in-line boring process does not suddenly change without significant force and damage.

That's a pretty big "IF". How? Tolerance stack up- between the press ram, shell holder, threaded interface on top of the press, the die itself.

 

[LHSmith]

It is not that big of an "IF".
How has he been reloading other stuff on that press without complaining here first? If everything was new and being used for the first time you could suspect the press. But if he has been using it a while you are barking up the wrong tree.
Please explain the tolerance stack up off all that hardware when he seems to have isolated the problem to brass? Good manufacturing practice says that the manufacturer of the press will attempt to bore the ram bore and the press mounting threads at the same time. That in-line boring process does not suddenly change without significant force and damage.

Well, the previous s/h's were a loose fit, and therefore allowed the cases to centered themselves. I don't see the post where the OP confirmed it was out of tolerance brass? Good manufacturing practice ? From China? A perfect line bore won't eliminate a concentricity issue when the press is asembled with a 7/8-14 thread insert at the top of the press that was machined out of concentric , a ram that is not straight, the s/h built without enough clearance to allow the case to center, a die whose hole made off center, etc.

 

[fguffey]

Well, the previous s/h's were a loose fit,

How previous? What brand?

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

I've noticed however, that the case sort of snaps into the shellholder, rather than being a slightly looser fit like all my other shellholders.

^^^This "previous". The OP doesn't list the brand(s).
Don't you guy's read the posts in their entirety? This is like conversing with women.