Shaw barrels?

[justinp61]

Thanks guys.

I guess I should lower my expectations, because I surely wasn't expecting for it to copper foul this bad after just 17 shots.

When it warms up I'll run some more rounds through it and see what it does. If I still don't like it I'll tie a tomato plant to it.

 

[msalm]

Thanks guys.

I guess I should lower my expectations, because I surely wasn't expecting for it to copper foul this bad after just 17 shots.

When it warms up I'll run some more rounds through it and see what it does. If I still don't like it I'll tie a tomato plant to it.

I wouldn’t get discouraged in that barrel yet, order a tubbs kit and follow some of the suggestions in this thread...it WILL work for your fouling issue. The Tubbs final finish system is NOT a snake oil treatment IMO. Firelapping barrels has been around for awhile.

 

[sparky123321]

Hammer forged rifling not for me! Barely OK for a hunting rifle(<20 shots/year), but not for a target file. With how quickly that barrel is going to load up with copper it's like your shooting down a different barrel every 10 round or so. By the time you smooth out all that copper holding chatter with Tubbs or a barrel compound you will roundoff all the nice sharp edges of your lands and grooves.

Silly not to spend the extra $100 or so to go with a Shilen, Hart, Douglas or similar button rifled barrel. By the time you get that smoothed out enough to stop the rapid copper build up you will have induced more wear and decreased the barrel's life by more than what you saved.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Like others said, shoot ALOT or get the tubbs bullets. It WILL help copper fouling. Mine in 257 bob fouled in 3-4 shots, lots of orange looking down the muzzle. Used the tubbs and shot/cleaned a bit more during load development and it is very good now. Much less copper after many shots. KG12 cleaner is your friend but it will come around.

 

[snowpro440]

If it don't work out send it to me . I have savages that did the same thing for the first 150 rounds and they looked awful inside too.

 

[Txhillbilly]

The Shaw 6.5 CM and 7mm-08 barrel's that I currently have don't copper foul any worse than any other Button rifled barrel I've used, and never have since they were first installed.

 

[justinp61]

I received a reply from Shaw Friday. Some of you guys were spot on with your advice.


Quote:

"Good afternoon,
Generally with a non lapped bore you will see the residual reamer marks embedded in the steel. Friction between softer copper jackets coupled with extreme velocity means copper fowling is usually present upon the first few shots so fowling is to be expected. Some barrels can also benefit from having some fowling, and as your barrel breaks in any micropores in the steel will be filled in. Cleaning in excess can damage a bore so many times it is not necessary to remove every bit of copper.

Give the barrel a bit and see how things go and if you still are not satisfied we can discuss a replacement or refund."

My question is, what defines a few shots? When the weather starts to break I'll continue to shoot it and see where it goes.

Thanks guys, Justin.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

Not. To de-rail the thread, but Douglas Barrels doesn’t lap either and they shoot good. So this boils down to the process and tooling being used.

 

[therifler]

i have had mixed success with Shaw. they are fairly cheap and if you use it as a hunting rifle and for that alone not bad . if you like to shoot often copper build up becomes a problem . for that reason when i build for customers i use a barrel of higher quality and hand lapped . douglas doesn't lap but the finishes are better than what i see in the pics provided.

 

[wbm]

Some barrels can also benefit from having some fowling, and as your barrel breaks in any micro pores in the steel will be filled in. Cleaning in excess can damage a bore so many times it is not necessary to remove every bit of copper.

FWIW; "Years ago I had the CEO of a famous barrel brand tell me exactly the same thing.

 

[std7mag]

As far as how many is a few shots, it's hard to tell.
I've seen precission match shooters put at least 5 rounds down the tube before they'll even think of shooting for score.
And i've seen a Ruger Varmint need 50 rounds after total cleaning before it settled in.
Only your target can tell you.

 

[Twicepop]

I have a Shaw barrel on a commercial (Mark X) Mauser action and it will do close to half inch groups all day long. I'm having another rifle re-barreled by Shaw as we speak. I don't expect Kreiger or Hart barrels, but I didn't pay Kreiger or Hart prices either. I've seen it here (paraphrased) that bore scoping has created more imaginary problems than it has identified. It's a chrome-moly barrel I presume, they take longer to break in and season than does a stainless barrel, give it some time.

 

[LHSmith]

Whenever I opted to go with an aftermarket barrel, I never considered any brand that did not lap the bore. The price difference to me between Shaw or Douglas and Shilen, Hart and Krieger was not enough for me to forego the odds of being satisfied with it's performance. You are spending the same amount of money (or the same amount of your labor) for chambering and finishing. Isn't the goal usually to replace with something better than the factory barrel?

 

[Raptor]

I will update you guys on my AR Shaw barrel in a 6 ARC. It arrived earlier this week and upon initial inspection I was pleased with the nice finish and the barrel extension looked good also. I ran a patch through the bore and it nearly stopped at the gas port hole!! I had a definite burr in the barrel where they drilled the gas port. I took a stiff cleaning brush in 6.5 caliber and ran it back and forth until it smoothed up. I then cleaned it and took some JBs bore cleaner and went to work on it then cleaned it again. After this the bore felt nice and smooth. I purchased a Odin works adj. gas block and when I went to check the fit it actually fell on the barrel!!! I miked both the gas block and the barrel. The gas block was .753 and the barrel surface was .747 so I had .006 play in the gas block. I lapped and squared the receiver face on the upper and checked the barrel fit. Found it to be looser than I like so I bought some "Green Loctite" and used it on the barrel extension then I "Peened" the underside of the barrel where the gas block set and used the loctite on it too, being careful not to get any in the gas port hole. I let it dry for a couple of days then took it out and sighted it in with factory 105s. I then checked the final zero with a 3 shot group and it put the 105 factory load into a .565 I had some 3 shot test loads loaded up to try so I started testing them. My first group of 90ELDs went into a .515 for 3 shots. I tested about 8 loads and most of them were under an inch with one or two going 1.1 and 1.4" the factory 108ELDs went into a .945 for a 5 shot group so all in all I was very pleased with my initial testing. I was using a can and started having issues with the first round not chambering all the way and would not fire. I think from the looks of my mag it was getting pretty dirty in the chamber and I also think my brass was just a touch oversized. So I stopped and brought it home and cleaned it up. I was anxious to see if it fouled very much from what I had seen on here. Once again I was pleasantly surprised to see that I had very little copper fouling. So all in all I am pleased with my Shaw barrel in the early outing......

 

[std7mag]

I have a Shaw barrel on a commercial (Mark X) Mauser action and it will do close to half inch groups all day long. I'm having another rifle re-barreled by Shaw as we speak. I don't expect Kreiger or Hart barrels, but I didn't pay Kreiger or Hart prices either. I've seen it here (paraphrased) that bore scoping has created more imaginary problems than it has identified. It's a chrome-moly barrel I presume, they take longer to break in and season than does a stainless barrel, give it some time.

I have one on a Mark X also. 1.5 contour, 24", 11° recessed crown in 284 Win.

 

[Raptor]

Just a quick up date on my 6mm ARC AR Shaw barrel. I have finished my load testing and have two loads that shot really well for me. I shot one of them out to 800yds today to get some data on it and all of my 3 shot groups were in the .5 MOA or under except for one.. The other nice thing is, this damn barrel does NOT foul in any matter of the word!!! No copper at all!!!

 

[Greymatter762]

What was the lead time on your barrel when you purchased it? Was it 16 weeks?

 

[Greymatter762]

I've had some savage factory barrels that looked like a washboard, but shot .5 moa all day with factory bulk ammo (.308 ammo inc 175gr m118, and hornady american gunner 6.5 creed x200 cans). Both of those barrels worked best with an "equilibrium" cleaning cycle, and I could have around 140 rounds of accurate .5moa
Shots before some light bore cleaning was needed. I never took it all out. Would take 5 rounds to put it right back for another 120-140 rounds. When it comes to accuracy corresponding with a borescope viewing, I can honestly say it doesn't matter if its ugly imho. The only thing that corresponds is cleaning time/regimen. Other issues likely cause the lack of accuracy. I've been very impressed with some cheaper barrel offerings of late.

 

[std7mag]

Well, i purchased the 257 Roberts barrel from @Cemetary21.

Bought a donor Savage 111 that was on clearance. (Cheaper than a used Savage)

Reamed barrel to 257 Roberts AI.

I'm using PPU 7X57 brass run through a F/L 257 Roberts die, then fire formed.

Ladder test yesterday using 120gr Partitions & RL19 looks promising.

I tried Norma MRP, but it seemed too slow burning.

This is now the 4th E.R. Shaw barrel i've bought that i've been happy with!

 

[SmallFunGroups]

I bought a Savage Elite Precision 6mm Creedmoor last year, just now getting around to shooting it due to work requirements. I have significant chatter marks on the lands and the grooves, just like others are sharing in this thread. I have had carbon ring issues causing pressure spikes and some stubborn copper deposits near the muzzle. All of this with only 50 rds down the tube. Butch's Bore Shine was not able to solve the issue, had to go with REM 40x with kroil for the carbon ring, and bore tech eliminator seems to be working the copper out quickly. I also have some worrisome gouges in the freebore area, hoping Tubb's final finish system wears those down a bit.

I have used Tubbs final finish bullets successfully in 3 other guns, just ordered them to work on this barrel. When it is clean, I can get 10 rounds to stack up .3 MOA. After 10, things start spreading out very quickly. I am confident that the Tubb bullets will make a needed difference.