Serial Numbers

[Willie]

I have build sheets on every rifle I have in my possession, but I just had a horrible thought. I gave my sons about a dozen firearms over the years and failed to give them any paperwork, showing where I bought them or anything showing a transfer from me to them.

Now I'm wondering exactly what to do to rectify my mistake?

 

[Macropod]

Here in Australia if you own a firearm and it is registered you are placed on a criminal database (Crimtrac). As our government essentially regards all legitimate firearms owners as criminals, they don't go out of their way to be particularly helpful. Some state registries have been compromised apparently with targeted gun thefts. It is so easy for someone working in the registry to pass on a 'shopping list' to criminal elements with addresses supplied. Being that these registries are staffed by people who are not serving members of the police service that isn't a great surprise.

 

[Richard Coody]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about MISINFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No national data base???????????? Ever heard of NCIC (National Criminal Information Center). When authorized and for a lawful purpose or investigation, any Law Enforcement Agency/Officer, can "run" a "WEAPONS CHECK" and determine whether that weapon has been registered, if it is stolen and who that weapon is registered to. How else would you expect a weapon to be traced by Law Enforcement????? How the heck do you think ATF/Feds tracked or intended to track that IDIOTIC idea during the Obama Administration of the FAST AND FURIOUS FIASCO that cost a Border Patrol Officer (Terry) his life? Sorry but you have BOGUS info!

Alex

. A federal firearms trace database is off-limits to the public.

How often do federally licensed gun dealers sell guns that are then used in crimes? It's hard to know, because for nearly a decade such gun trace data has been hidden from the public. Even local law enforcement had been, until recently, barred from accessing the database for anything but narrow investigations.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, licensed dealers are required to record certain information about a buyer and the gun's serial number at the point of sale. When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, local law enforcement agencies can request The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to trace the firearm's origins. The retrieved information is compiled into a crime gun trace database maintained by ATF. A tool to catch criminals, the database in the early 2000s became a political flashpoint, as the Washington Post details. Outside research tying seized guns to a small handful of dealers spurred the federal government to impose tougher sanctions and inspections on gun retailers and manufacturers.

But those sanctions sparked a backlash: Since 2003, the Tiahrt Amendments, so named after the former Kansas Republican congressman who introduced the measures, have concealed the database from the public. Prior to 2010, local police could access the database only to investigate an individual crime but not to look for signs of broader criminal activity.

Despite the relaxing of some restrictions, parts of the original Tiahrt Amendment remain in place. The ATF can't require gun dealers to conduct an inventory to account for lost or stolen guns; records of customer background checks must be destroyed within 24 hours if they are clean enough to allow the sale; and trace data can't be used in state civil lawsuits or in an effort to suspend or revoke a gun dealer's license.

 

[dickn52]

I have build sheets on every rifle I have in my possession, but I just had a horrible thought. I gave my sons about a dozen firearms over the years and failed to give them any paperwork, showing where I bought them or anything showing a transfer from me to them.

Now I'm wondering exactly what to do to rectify my mistake?

Make one bill of sale....saying you sold them to him for a $1.00 and other considerations. He signs and you sign.

 

[chuckshooter]

it depends on which state you live in. it easy enough to google the Regs for your state and the fed. reg as well for instance in CA there was no paperwork required for father to son, grandfather to grandson ect. on long guns untill 2014.. hand guns there was a form infra familia transfer. filled out the form , sent $19.00 and was done . now there are new regs in Kalifornia.. if you did this transfer 10 years ago you are probably ok without any paperwork but like i said it easy enough to google the rules for your situation. also look at what state to your sons live

I have build sheets on every rifle I have in my possession, but I just had a horrible thought. I gave my sons about a dozen firearms over the years and failed to give them any paperwork, showing where I bought them or anything showing a transfer from me to them.

Now I'm wondering exactly what to do to rectify my mistake?

it depends on which state you live in. it easy enough to google the Regs for your state and the fed. regs as well for instance in CA there was no paperwork required for father to son, grandfather to grandson ect. on long guns untill 2014.. hand guns there was a form infra familia transfer. filled out the form , sent $19.00 and was done . now there are new regs in Kalifornia.. if you did this transfer 10 years ago you are probably ok without any paperwork but like i said it's easy enough to google the rules for your situation. also look at what state to your sons live

 

[Willie]

Make one bill of sale....saying you sold them to him for a $1.00 and other considerations. He signs and you sign.

That'll work in Texas, I'm sure, for the time being. No telling what's coming down the pike as far as Feds are concerned. Texas Shield Law allows transfer to children living in Texas, so I'm GTG.

 

[Shynloco]

. A federal firearms trace database is off-limits to the public.

How often do federally licensed gun dealers sell guns that are then used in crimes? It's hard to know, because for nearly a decade such gun trace data has been hidden from the public. Even local law enforcement had been, until recently, barred from accessing the database for anything but narrow investigations.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, licensed dealers are required to record certain information about a buyer and the gun's serial number at the point of sale. When a gun is recovered from a crime scene, local law enforcement agencies can request The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to trace the firearm's origins. The retrieved information is compiled into a crime gun trace database maintained by ATF. A tool to catch criminals, the database in the early 2000s became a political flashpoint, as the Washington Post details. Outside research tying seized guns to a small handful of dealers spurred the federal government to impose tougher sanctions and inspections on gun retailers and manufacturers.

But those sanctions sparked a backlash: Since 2003, the Tiahrt Amendments, so named after the former Kansas Republican congressman who introduced the measures, have concealed the database from the public. Prior to 2010, local police could access the database only to investigate an individual crime but not to look for signs of broader criminal activity.

Despite the relaxing of some restrictions, parts of the original Tiahrt Amendment remain in place. The ATF can't require gun dealers to conduct an inventory to account for lost or stolen guns; records of customer background checks must be destroyed within 24 hours if they are clean enough to allow the sale; and trace data can't be used in state civil lawsuits or in an effort to suspend or revoke a gun dealer's license.

Richard,
Looks at your opening words in your original post. There IS, in fact, a record (though not open to the public) of weapon registrations, stolen weapon serial numbers and the ownership of registered weapons. Law Enforcement continues to enter STOLEN SERIALIZED items (including weapons) into NCIC and there is "limited basis" as you claim, but authorized for any criminal investigation, whether it be theft, a found weapon or any crime in which a recovered weapon was used. So regardless of what new laws may have been passed since I retired, NCIC is still up and running. I'm CLEARLY talking about CRIMINAL CASES, but your statement was initially a blanket one and therefore BOGUS. Words matter!

Alex

 

[Chief 101]

With the advent of the internet becoming a large part of the firearm buying and selling business, I'd say it's just people using common sense.

Maybe somebody can come up with a verifiable story of a Serial number being an issue . Some really smart internet scammer isn't going to know enough about your ownership of a firearm to convince anybody of anything...just putting it out there...

 

[hogpatrol]

Not sure if this scenario could apply to firearms, but thieves steal avionics/radios out of small general aviation aircraft. The m.o. is steal two identical units, take one of the stolen units and replace it with another identical stolen unit. Only one would be reported to the stolen database since one aircraft would still have a unit in the panel. Until stolen unit #2 was removed and offered for sale would the second theft be discovered. Would be tough to do something like this on custom guns but with millions of handguns and ARs out there, anything in the realm of thievery is possible and if anyone thinks every person holding an FFL is honest, well I've got some beachfront land in Kansas for sale cheap.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

No offense to anyone here, but anybody who believes that the Feds do not keep permanent records of every call-in of the NICS checks probably still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

 

[dickn52]

No offense to anyone here, but anybody who believes that the Feds do not keep permanent records of every call-in of the NICS checks probably still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

I love it when someone starts with No Offense and then offends everyone. YES, there is a database, but it only goes as far as the retailer, who then whips out the yellow form and provides the info on request. SO, and no offense taken, there is a data base from Manufacturing to jobber to retailer....but that's where the data base stops or leads them. Why else would a retailer have to keep the forms in storage for (7 years?). And I still believe in Santa too.

 

[NorCalMikie]

No offense to anyone here, but anybody who believes that the Feds do not keep permanent records of every call-in of the NICS checks probably still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

You mean to tell me there is NO Easter Bunny or No Santa Claus???
What the hell is this world coming to?? You have officially burst my bubble.

 

[hogpatrol]

You mean to tell me there is NO Easter Bunny or No Santa Claus???
What the hell is this world coming to?? You have officially burst my bubble.

No, but there is a Tooth Fairy. A total of around five bucks proved that.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

I told dad Jimmie Glynn got 25 cents for a tooth. Always positive, dad said don't worry about that your whole body's not worth that much.

 

[NorCalMikie]

When the dentist pulled my teeth, I HAD TO PAY HIM!! So much for the Tooth Fairy idea.

 

[ballistic64]

I love it when someone starts with No Offense and then offends everyone. YES, there is a database, but it only goes as far as the retailer, who then whips out the yellow form and provides the info on request. SO, and no offense taken, there is a data base from Manufacturing to jobber to retailer....but that's where the data base stops or leads them. Why else would a retailer have to keep the forms in storage for (7 years?). And I still believe in Santa too.

Yeah, and the NSA doesn't have access to every email you have ever sent either.

 

[Richard Coody]

Richard,
Looks at your opening words in your original post. There IS, in fact, a record (though not open to the public) of weapon registrations, stolen weapon serial numbers and the ownership of registered weapons. Law Enforcement continues to enter STOLEN SERIALIZED items (including weapons) into NCIC and there is "limited basis" as you claim, but authorized for any criminal investigation, whether it be theft, a found weapon or any crime in which a recovered weapon was used. So regardless of what new laws may have been passed since I retired, NCIC is still up and running. I'm CLEARLY talking about CRIMINAL CASES, but your statement was initially a blanket one and therefore BOGUS. Words matter!

Alex

I don't believe a database of stolen weapons or.those used in a crime really effect many on this forum other than maybe having a chance to recover our stolen property.
Now as i clearly stated law enforcment does.have.the ability to track a weapon to the dealer who is required to keep a record.of that weapons original sale.
I asked a question about what happens when the.original owner sold the gun and.what.happens then. Lots of.this thread is about that very question

Some ask about the background checks. By law if you pass they have to be destroyed in 24 hours.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

that one ranks right up there with the amendment that created a tax on income about a hundred years ago. The government promised that the rate would never rise above 2% for citizens.

I was in an Army Ranger Company in RVN. Six years after I got out, I moved from the St Louis area to SW Idaho. The Ranger Company started having reunions, and I got an Email updating me. When wifey and I went to the next one, I asked how they found me here more than twenty years later.

Answer: one of the guys went to work for a Federal Govt agency. He tells me, at the reunion, that he simply went to the NICS record system and looked to see the last address I had listed on a firearms purchase. I asked him how he could find my Email address, since it is not required. He just smiled; and said "I work for an agency that can access everything on everybody in the US, and most foreign countries...".

I would bet, given five minutes and your first and last name, he could give you complete details of your last dental visit.

1984 came a long time ago in America...

 

[Richard Coody]

that one ranks right up there with the amendment that created a tax on income about a hundred years ago. The government promised that the rate would never rise above 2% for citizens.

I was in an Army Ranger Company in RVN. Six years after I got out, I moved from the St Louis area to SW Idaho. The Ranger Company started having reunions, and I got an Email updating me. When wifey and I went to the next one, I asked how they found me here more than twenty years later.

Answer: one of the guys went to work for a Federal Govt agency. He tells me, at the reunion, that he simply went to the NICS record system and looked to see the last address I had listed on a firearms purchase. I asked him how he could find my Email address, since it is not required. He just smiled; and said "I work for an agency that can access everything on everybody in the US, and most foreign countries...".

I would bet, given five minutes and your first and last name, he could give you complete details of your last dental visit.

1984 came a long time ago in America...

NSA? The law does not apply! What a bunch of crap.

 

[NorCalMikie]

You got a Credit Card?, You ever voted?, You own property?, Pay property taxes?, You have a drivers license?, Your kids go to school, public or private?, You can run but you can't hide!!
Worked with a guy that use to be a County Sheriff. Took him all of 30 seconds on our shop computer to show me stuff about ME that "I" didn't even know. But it was all good.