Self Policing at Gun Range
- Thread starter archerforkids
- Start date
I just might snoop that outSurprised your club's insurance underwriter hasn't mandated cameras yet.
And then you might capture a bobcat strolling by as my club did.
^ This 1000%. Whether for accidents, off range rounds or just the dumb stuff, cameras are without a doubt a club saver.
You can get a full system for way less than you expect and they're super simple to set up these days and often have cheap or free storage options.
As for stupid things people shoot and why cameras matter, one of the clubs I belong to set up a wifi system for cameras and it was off the left of the range (well outside any accidental shot) and it took just a couple days before someone put a hole in it. Luckily our tech guy put a system in place that told him the exact time the connection was severed and then tapes couple be reviewed to find the offender.
Lucky Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
We have a fairly large membership and the range has electronic gates and cameras. I originally didn't like the idea of cameras-----too much big brother.
I'm leery of calling some stranger out when he has a gun and am beginning to
like the idea of cameras to help with the dirty work.
We get a lot of damage to our target frames (club property which will cost to repair)----some of this deliberate and most is accidental but could be avoided
by pulling their heads out.
We just need to be responsible.
A. Weldy
I'm leery of calling some stranger out when he has a gun and am beginning to
like the idea of cameras to help with the dirty work.
We get a lot of damage to our target frames (club property which will cost to repair)----some of this deliberate and most is accidental but could be avoided
by pulling their heads out.
We just need to be responsible.
A. Weldy
dryhumor
When an old man dies, a library is lost forever...
At a minimum, a camera on the gate. You might find that the combination has been shared. A notice that any member sharing the combination to unauthorized non members will lose their membership.
A notice to members that if continuing damage to target stands continues, that member fees will increase to X$ to cover repairs/replacements. Give an example spread across all members to replace every target stand completely. Don’t forget to factor in fuel/mileage, and labor.
A notice to members that if continuing damage to target stands continues, that member fees will increase to X$ to cover repairs/replacements. Give an example spread across all members to replace every target stand completely. Don’t forget to factor in fuel/mileage, and labor.
DShortt
Gold $$ Contributor
This is a timely subject for me. I just joined a private club yesterday. I've been looking into it for a long time and decided the time was right.
They are experiencing damage due to people shooting structural objects also. As a new member, I don't want to get too aggressive about my thinking immediately, but I will offer a few suggestions.
Existing damage needs to be identified and documented in some manner. They have cameras, so someone is going to have to inspect the range and facility daily to check for new damage. That damage needs to be reported to the Board of Directors. If they determine it's intentional or grossly negligent, the member or members responsible need to be banned immediately and their paid dues forfeited. The incident needs to be distributed immediately via email and included in the monthly news letter. No names need be mentioned.
That may seem harsh, but too many people will only obey rules when there are consequences and examples of those consequences. Life would be much simpler for everyone if people would recognize and follow rules laws and regulations. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen with a small percentage. So identify them and get rid of them.
They are experiencing damage due to people shooting structural objects also. As a new member, I don't want to get too aggressive about my thinking immediately, but I will offer a few suggestions.
Existing damage needs to be identified and documented in some manner. They have cameras, so someone is going to have to inspect the range and facility daily to check for new damage. That damage needs to be reported to the Board of Directors. If they determine it's intentional or grossly negligent, the member or members responsible need to be banned immediately and their paid dues forfeited. The incident needs to be distributed immediately via email and included in the monthly news letter. No names need be mentioned.
That may seem harsh, but too many people will only obey rules when there are consequences and examples of those consequences. Life would be much simpler for everyone if people would recognize and follow rules laws and regulations. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen with a small percentage. So identify them and get rid of them.
RCE1
Gold $$ Contributor
We have volunteer rangemasters on duty when the range is open.
I shot at a range that was self-policing and I had to leave because I felt unsafe. A van full of young men showed up with an Ak variant that was going off full auto. They thought it was hilarious. The guy nominally in charge was afraid to confront them (understandably). I loaded up my stuff and got out of there. Called the sheriff on my way home. It was in Marin County.
I shot at a range that was self-policing and I had to leave because I felt unsafe. A van full of young men showed up with an Ak variant that was going off full auto. They thought it was hilarious. The guy nominally in charge was afraid to confront them (understandably). I loaded up my stuff and got out of there. Called the sheriff on my way home. It was in Marin County.
Our club uses 6x6 timbers laid on the ground with a dado track cut into them for the target stands. The stands are just 1x2 frames with cardboard faces. Each shooter must place a stand out before shooting and return it when done. The frames do get shot occasionally but they are cheap and easy to replace.
On the 200yd line, we have a giant snail steel trap that uses a 4'x4' piece of ply slid into the front. The thing is just about impossible to damage.
At the 400yd line I built a 4'x7' target backer with 2"x4" legs that fit into a steel base. Occasionally, someone will shoot a 2"x4" leg and it will need to be repaired. I just sister up a scrap piece of 2"x4" and it's good for a while. The entire target frame will get replaced every other year because the board is full of holes and weather takes its toll on it too.
We really don't have problems around the benches except for brass that is not picked up, especially 22 RF. As much as I don't like being monitored 24/7 by surveillance cameras, it would solve problems when the bad seeds get caught.
On the 200yd line, we have a giant snail steel trap that uses a 4'x4' piece of ply slid into the front. The thing is just about impossible to damage.
At the 400yd line I built a 4'x7' target backer with 2"x4" legs that fit into a steel base. Occasionally, someone will shoot a 2"x4" leg and it will need to be repaired. I just sister up a scrap piece of 2"x4" and it's good for a while. The entire target frame will get replaced every other year because the board is full of holes and weather takes its toll on it too.
We really don't have problems around the benches except for brass that is not picked up, especially 22 RF. As much as I don't like being monitored 24/7 by surveillance cameras, it would solve problems when the bad seeds get caught.
Sounds like my club. Electronic gate, cameras, self policing, signage EVERYWHERE. We do get the occasional ass clowns that think they can do what they want. The bigger problem are the members that come out only occasionally and don’t know the rules. I can’t count the times that I’ve had to introduce people to the box full of chamber flags we have sitting right in front of them. Or point out the sign that explains exactly why I’m confronting them. Most of the time they are very contrite. Have had a few encounters where they want to argue with me, a couple got pretty heated. Those guys get called to the carpet to plead for their membership.
Eliminate the target frames, the club I belong to does not provide them unless it is for a club sponsored match. If it is just I don't care, after they build several that they shoot up. Their accuracy will improve. As far as trash, just have to monitor and reinforce the policies, I don't mind telling someone to clean up after shooting, the club belongs to all the members. I know several shooters have thin skin, so be careful in approaching them to let them know the policies. I would just document with a few pics of them and their vehicle and send to the board.
Our club does have a good membership, as it is well taken care of. Only minor infractions from members related to some trash.
I place a high value on being able to have membership at private range where I live.
Just my .02
Tim
I'm a member at a very similar type of range, small membership gated range with no on duty RO.
We went to a physical key card rather than a code, you have to have the access card to buzz yourself into the gate. That would eliminate any non-member usage.
We have a ton of target frames made of wood 2x2 and 2x4. You have to carry the frame out to the range and back when you want to use it, bring your own paper target. They do get shot a lot, but mainly due to inaccurate shooters and not malicious intent. Every year we build more new ones, they are just a consumable.
Having volunteer cleanup days also helps, you could go to a system where every member has to volunteer and clean up things one day a year.
We went to a physical key card rather than a code, you have to have the access card to buzz yourself into the gate. That would eliminate any non-member usage.
We have a ton of target frames made of wood 2x2 and 2x4. You have to carry the frame out to the range and back when you want to use it, bring your own paper target. They do get shot a lot, but mainly due to inaccurate shooters and not malicious intent. Every year we build more new ones, they are just a consumable.
Having volunteer cleanup days also helps, you could go to a system where every member has to volunteer and clean up things one day a year.
The club i belong to is really nice. Indoor pistol range, outdoors pistol range rifle range to 300 yards. Gate is operated by a card and they keep track of who goes in and out. Multiple cameras from the gate to all shooting stations. They record full time and if any stupidity occurs they go back and view the tapes. Violations are dealt with according to the severity of the violation up to revocation of membership and they don't mess around. There are some rules named after violators and everyone tends to police themselves and other shooters to a fairly high standard. I've never seen anyone do anything really stupid and most are very receptive to some friendly suggestions. The clubs track record of dealing with shenanigans in a fairly strict manner seems to work. For 100 dollars a year it's a bargain as far as I'm concerned.
Have the RSO ask them to leave if he spots a fool shooting up the place Tommy Mc
danny
Silver $$ Contributor
Just knowing human behavior and realistically knowing that you should expect the worst behavior, I think that putting up signage is also not a viable option. You sometimes go to stores and there can be signs saying "Pease do not touch". There are some people, no matter how obvious the signs are, will miss them and touch the object. There is also another group that will see the signs and have the attitude of "you aren't going to tell me what I can or can't do" and will touch the object when they otherwise would not have, "just because". The object was then essentially made a "target" and had more touching than when it was more inconspicuous without a sign.
Danny
danny
Silver $$ Contributor
Absolutely, and I might add that they will only follow them if they are certain they will get caught. If not, it's "I'm not going to do that".
Danny
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
We have a lot of members, everything card access and it only takes a few idiots.
We actually had fools shooting at concrete trap houses adjacent to rifle line.
Last several years, lights/ sound on line and several cameras above/ behind all firing lines, clubhouse, etc.
Dramatically reduced idiot factor, although does not make guys more accurate, target frames still get constant rebuilds.
FWIW, new guys must go through 10-15 minute training/safety talk.
gmr4
Silver $$ Contributor
I hunt a fantastic farm in Alabama and we get some that leave all kinds of trash in shooting houses. When caught they are asked to never come back. Same with shooting club.. use cameras.. catch someone and toss them out. MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS Nothing better than a head on a stake in the parking lot…
3Ackleys
Gold $$ Contributor
We have a few range officers. All members have to have their membership badge visible at the range. These are brightly colored and laminated. Each year there is a different color.
Also any new member has to come out for orientation. Show them the lay out and explain the rules. If you have the volunteer help you could have all members complete the orientation within a year. We did that the first year we had it.
Our main uprights for target frames are railroad rails. When they get shot it just leaves a shiny spot.
We still have a few problems here and there. In general if everyone were able to police themselves, we wouldn't need police!
Also any new member has to come out for orientation. Show them the lay out and explain the rules. If you have the volunteer help you could have all members complete the orientation within a year. We did that the first year we had it.
Our main uprights for target frames are railroad rails. When they get shot it just leaves a shiny spot.
We still have a few problems here and there. In general if everyone were able to police themselves, we wouldn't need police!
rabradshaw
Gold $$ Contributor
I belong to a club here in Texas. We have a gate code and a combination to the club house, it changes yearly at renewal and only paid members get the new combo/code. We have a sign in/out sheet and published rules. The biggest thing we have done is instilled a sense of ownership by club members. Destruction of equipment only costs the club money and prohibits further upgrades and additions. We do a background check and orientation with new members and anyone caught violating the rules is subject to expulsion. We also cap membership at a certain number and only take new members when we fall below the max. We hold monthly IDPA, Outlaw steel, and soon rifle matches. Our membership is $175 a year for individual and $225 for family. We have a range master that is there frequently.
Target cameras could work, I certainly don’t know all the variables at your range. However, if target frames can get shot then so can cameras, it could get expensive. I’d try to set up a range master position and do background checks, create rules and enforce them. If you can identify the bad apples send em down the road. Just my opinion.
Target cameras could work, I certainly don’t know all the variables at your range. However, if target frames can get shot then so can cameras, it could get expensive. I’d try to set up a range master position and do background checks, create rules and enforce them. If you can identify the bad apples send em down the road. Just my opinion.
jmm03
Gold $$ Contributor
the problem of foolios at the range unfortunately will never go away. I have seen the worst damage on target frames by shotgunners deliberately aiming at the frames to cut them in half. (after the fact, I would have called them out if I had seen it happening) Our range is remote enough in the Los Padres National forest that we don't have cell or electrical service. We did have a satellite connection at one time so maybe putting wireless cameras is an option but sometimes getting new equipment is a challenge. Luckily, it is a random problem as the majority of members are responsible and the range is not open to the public except under the supervision of a rangemaster once a month.
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