Seeking a.t.c. loads for a match AR-15

[nwflycaster]

I have just been using factory match amunition and firing across the course matches at the local clubs around here. This past weekend I had the opportunity to try a full length match and had a very nasty surprise. The ammo that works great at 100 and still good at 200 is terrible at the 300 and 600 yard stages.

I thought I was haveing sight issues as I went through that just a few weeks prior. But when you call your shot as an x and it comes up as an 8 you know something's up. It took some figuring, but it ended up being the ammo. Over 4 targets the factory stuff dropped over thirty points. I borrowed someone elses extras to use for the last two targets as a test and yup, that was the issue, I dropped only two points which was a sure giveaway that the problem has been discovered.

Now I need to start the process of finding a load that will work best with my rifle. I use an AR-15 match rifle with a 1x8 twist.

I want to stay away if possible from the finiky stuff so after talking with a few people at the match I'm thinking of Reloader 15 powder and 77 and 80 grain Sierra bullets.

What do you guys use for the 300 yd rapid fire and 600 yd slow fire stages?

 

[rminut]

You cannot go wrong with 24gr. of RE15 behind a 77gr SMK for 200 & 300. 24Gr of RE15 behind a 80gr SMK for 600.

Here is a popular website that shows how a Champion does it:

http://www.sw-hearing.com/konrad/reloading/reloading_procedure.htm

 

[Roarke]

+1 for Konrad's website.

 

[rminut]

i'd like to add load data from White Oak Precision:

http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm

John H. knows a "little" about making AR rifles shoot. Notice both pages don't really mention a big detailed process for finding a "magic" load. just make it safe and get out there and practice!

A quarter moa load in the hands of a marksman will score worse than a half moa load in the hands of a master. practice is more important than the never ending quest of a "best" load.

 

[distinguished]

As stated above, 24gr. Reloader 15 is an excellent load. I use the russian SRM primers
(wolf or tula) they cost less and I see no difference on target. I do run even new brass thru the size die to remove any irregularity in the case necks and to be sure they will chamber in my rifle.

 

[nwflycaster]

A quarter moa load in the hands of a marksman will score worse than a half moa load in the hands of a master. practice is more important than the never ending quest of a "best" load.

I'm not worried about the practice part, I get plenty of that. I need a load that can shoot well inside the x ring. I shoot iron sights but have put a telescopic sight on in the past to check and see what my position really looks like on the target. I've got my prone position fine tuned down to where my pulse beat does not bounce outside the x ring, so I need a load that can do the same thing. Around here if you shoot in a prone match and drop more than two or three x's per twenty shots you're not even competing, it usually takes 18 or 19 x's per target if you want the win. My pulse still beats though and I still have to do my part on timing it the same way every shot and that is what I spend my time practicing, that along with learning the wind.

I'll be using a nightforce benchrest scope for load testing from a rest at three hundred yards (thats the furthest my range has to offer) to get in the ballpark of what I want. Then I will take my best ones found to that point and go check them at 500 yards at another range 45 minutes away from home when they offer their 500 yard practice sessions once a month.

This problem of only getting once a month to shoot at any real length is why I'm asking for what you all are using, I'm trying to speed up the process a bit of what may work best and what is wasting my time and components. I already have 200 Lapua shells and will be buying a couple hundred more, which I will separate into groups according to weight before starting.

It sounds like starting at 23.5 gr and going up into to maybe upper 24's, should get me some answers. Thanks for the info guys, and keep more coming from any others that may have something they would share with me.

 

[nwflycaster]

I'm not finding much info out there on loads using Lapua brass, should I make a switch or is it good. I use Lapua in my 6ppc and it's great, but is it to heavy for this?

 

[A_Gamehog]

Go to this link, click the "reloading stuph" section, then scroll again..lots of loads but use with caution!


http://radomski.us/njhp/

 

[distinguished]

"Around here if you shoot in a prone match and drop more than 2 or 3 Xs per twenty shots you're not even competing,..." Really?

 

[Beau]

I'm not finding much info out there on loads using Lapua brass, should I make a switch or is it good. I use Lapua in my 6ppc and it's great, but is it to heavy for this?

I don't use Lapua brass. Weigh it and see how it compares to LC. If it is thick, you may have to come down a couple tenths.

 

[rminut]

"Around here if you shoot in a prone match and drop more than 2 or 3 Xs per twenty shots you're not even competing,..." Really?

exactly. Hey flycaster if you feel those scores are posted because of their load data you have lost before stepping to the line.

the best shooter wins, not the best reloader.

 

[nwflycaster]

"Around here if you shoot in a prone match and drop more than 2 or 3 Xs per twenty shots you're not even competing,..." Really?

exactly. Hey flycaster if you feel those scores are posted because of their load data you have lost before stepping to the line.

the best shooter wins, not the best reloader.

I would have to disagree and say the best shooter with the best load workup will win. I don't care how good the shooter is, if the ammo wont perform out at 600 yards you will not and have no chance of winning.

The factory match ammo I have works great on the 100 yard reduced atc matches, but as I found out this past weekend it's crap at 600 yards. I have checked it out further and it's not even capable of consistently holding 90% of shots fired inside the 10 ring in calm conditions even from a bench.

Your so called best shooter with this ammo will have his butt handed to him by a good shooter with a quality load.

 

[rminut]

24 grains of RE15 has won national titles. that's what i'm saying. have fun testing. you said you borrowed ammo that shot great why didn't you just ask what that was and use it? you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. it's not about the ammo.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Not really sure why you guys are busting his balls...

Most everyone is shooting Varget and Reloader 15. I see 23.5 to 24.5 grains with 77s and 80s. CCI and Rem primers are harder, and I never knew this before loading for the 6BR. I use to pop an occasional primer on rapid strings with Federal primers even with these standard loads.

I personally think that link they provided is excellent. That is very similar to what I always did. I particularly like his "powder check" die. I am going to copy that!!!

The only thing to improve it might be to use an electronic scale to drop powder. You can still use a progressive, just get a powder fill die (or make one). It's slower but my Hornady powder drop will not compete with my RCBS Chargemaster for consistency with R15 or Varget.

IMR 8208 drops wonderfully though. It meters like ball powder nearly. I hear it works very well in 223 with the heavy bullets too.

 

[nwflycaster]

you said you borrowed ammo that shot great why didn't you just ask what that was and use it? you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. it's not about the ammo.

1) I got it from the military team, couldn't get the exact makeup.

2) It's not about the ammo? I dropped 35 points with what I went with over 3 targets and two points with what I borrowed over almost the same number of shots. How can it not be about the ammo.

 

[rminut]

well Bradley i'll tell ya. while getting two Distinguished Badges and a Presidents Tab I just listened to the guys that were better than me. They told me to practice with a known good safe load. Old shooters love to help new shooters UNTIL they argue with the advice. Seems like new shooter's think it's all about X's, well it's not. It's about 10's, keeping the iron sights aligned in the 10 ring and breaking the trigger without moving the sights.
It's not about how many X's at 600 you get it's about being clean when you get to 600 because 24 gr of RE15 will clean the 600 if you can. Everybody wants a shortcut from the internet, there are no shortcuts to great scores. It's about range time.

 

[Bradley Walker]

you said you borrowed ammo that shot great why didn't you just ask what that was and use it? you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. it's not about the ammo.

1) I got it from the military team, couldn't get the exact makeup.

2) It's not about the ammo? I dropped 35 points with what I went with over 3 targets and two points with what I borrowed. How can it not be about the ammo.

I bet the GI ammo you shot was 24 gr. of R15 and Sierras!!!! HAHAHA!!! Nearly guaranteed!!!

 

[Bradley Walker]

It's not about how many X's at 600 you get it's about being clean when you get to 600 because 24 gr of RE15 will clean the 600 if you can.

I agree.

I think most Internet reloading talk is a wank. Shooting is much harder than reloading...

223 with heavy bullets will shoot better at 600 than most people can ever shoot. The great shooters are great shooters, but a good barrel and ammo does not hurt...

It's easy to overthink things.

I really like that page linked in the thread. That is all most people would EVER need. I have continued to keep coming back to the 223 because its plenty good enough...

 

[nwflycaster]

Old shooters love to help new shooters UNTIL they argue with the advice. Seems like new shooter's think it's all about X's, well it's not. It's about 10's, keeping the iron sights aligned in the 10 ring and breaking the trigger without moving the sights.

A couple of points.

First, I never said I was a new shooter, only new to high power shooting. Granted I am shooting reduced targets at 100 yards thats why I only found out ammo problems now. Before this discovery, my last three match scores had been 496/500 497/500 496/500. I'm pretty sure I know how to do my part though I still practice at least twice a week.

Second, I haven't argued with any advice when it comes to the reloading aspect. I only disagreed that it only takes the best shooter to win.

Thirdly, x's do matter unless you always shoot perfect scores in every position. I lost one of my 496/500 matches by one x.

I am new to reloading, which is why I was seeking advice here for where to start looking.

 

[rminut]

The AMU has used FGMM for decades at 200,300 and even 600 way back in the day before 80 SMK.

Maybe being your first time passed 100 had a little effect.

even with the best ammo you will still get Creedmoore'd, just remember though a 500-0x beats a 499-49x.

have fun.