Secret to make a Nosler AB shoot in a 280 AI

[hogpatrol]

I second the Bergers but wonder why a 9.25 twist?

 

[accuracyman]

This is an old rifle barrel. I built this back 15-20 years ago. Back then we didn’t have all the VLD bullets we have now. That was the fastest twist I could get back then for the “heavies”. It was ordered as a 9 twist but reality shows it to be 9.25. No one was making 8 and 8.5 twists in 7mm back then.

I have considered spinning a new barrel on this rifle but it still shoots well. The throat is showing it’s age but doesn’t foul quickly like when a barrel starts severely fire cracking. I may set it back an inch and clean up the throat. I put a long shank on my rifles so I can set them back when the throat gives up.

If I was to spin on a new barrel today it would definitely not be a 9 twist. I hope this clears up the 9.25 twist question. It just proves I’m getting old

Kris

 

[accuracyman]

I finished the 284 barrel this afternoon so we’ll see if it likes the Acubonds. It is an 8 twist so I can shoot just about anything in it. I shoot 180 hybrids in my long range rifle so I know the throat will accommodate the heavy vld’s. It also works great with the Hornady 162 ELD-X. I might have to try the heavy Hornady Interbond as well. Time will tell what it likes.

 

[AckleymanII]

175g Long range accubonds do very, very well in my 280 AI, 9T with IMR 7828 with fed 210's. These bullets liked to be close to the lands.

No luck with this barrel using the 150 or 168g LRAB, and never tried the 160g AB.

 

[accuracyman]

I'll give those 175's a try. I only tried the 160 AB so I was a little close minded. I never considered the LRAB. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try them in the 280 Ack and the new 284 barrel.

Kris

 

[ChrisNZ]

My 9-twist 26" Bartlein shoots the 150 LRABs accurately at 3130 using H4350. Should make an elk cough..

 

[std7mag]

The last bullet I would try and shoot an elk with is a Ballistic tip. The worst failure I've ever had was 25 years ago on a deer with the 140 BT in a 7mm-08. Splashed on the hide right behind the shoulder on a rib, 6 hrs later I finally caught up to it and was able to finish it off after I let it lay for 3 hrs first.

I've heard of monos acting this way, never a BT.
I've dropped a lot of deer in their tracks with the BT. I still shoot them.
And go to the place where they take elk hunting very seriously, and proclaim not to like the BT. They'll shoo you outta there right quick!

 

[284winner]

People are/have been taking elk with the 140gr, even the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Except for the guys from Gunwerks & Best of the West, most elk are shot 400 yards & closer.

Take a 7mm-08, and you'll be fine.

Took my son on a youth hunt several years ago. It was on my buddy's property and his grandfather owned an enclosed ranch next to where we hunted. He had some hunters hunting deer on the ranch. One of the hunters wanted to kill an elk so paid to kill one. He had a 7mm mag w/140 Nosler ballistic tips. Shot an elk in the shoulder area and put another couple in the elk after the first round. The following morning my buddies grandfather asked him if some of his youth hunters could help track that elk. After the kids jumped the elk a couple times, it was apparent it wasn't ready to die so they backed out. The shooter had to pay for the wounded animal and did not leave with it. About 3 days later, my buddies grandfather found the elk dead. He found that the bullet never made it into any vitals. The other couple shots it the stomach causing a slow death. Infection more than likely killed the animal. While I can't generalize and say that bullet isn't good for elk, I can say that bullet didn't kill that elk. 9 out of 10 times it may. This was that one time it didn't. I've heard many guys complain that the 160 AB will not shoot in their 7mm (284) rifles. Sounds like a common complaint.

 

[std7mag]

Blame the idiot behind the trigger!
Elk shoulder hit not an absolute kill with any bullet.
Gotta know your rifle/bullet/ and your limitations.

 

[oldroper]

People are/have been taking elk with the 140gr, even the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Except for the guys from Gunwerks & Best of the West, most elk are shot 400 yards & closer.

Take a 7mm-08, and you'll be fine.

Blame the idiot behind the trigger!
Elk shoulder hit not an absolute kill with any bullet.
Gotta know your rifle/bullet/ and your limitations.

I guess your voice of experience. I almost forgot you never hunted or killed an elk. You post on FL.

 

[284winner]

Blame the idiot behind the trigger!
Elk shoulder hit not an absolute kill with any bullet.
Gotta know your rifle/bullet/ and your limitations.

Easy to say but shoot enough elk and eventually a bullet won't quite make it exactly where the crosshairs are. Elk have legs. They occasionally use them. Pretty tough to expect them to stay put while you pull the trigger and bullet makes contact. That's why using the right bullet makes more sense than calling the trigger guy an idiot. BTW...I've never hit an elk in the shoulder that didn't go down almost immediately with a Nosler Partition. I must be the idiot your speaking of I guess. It's hunting not target shooting. They just don't always cooperate like them paper targets you staple to plywood

 

[nmkid]

Of the elk that I was lucky to harvest while living in Wyoming, all but one were taken with shoulder shots. Back in those days Partitions and Swift A-Frames were your friends. I used bullets that were meant to kill elk, not bullets that you could use for elk.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

I am trying to get a Nosler AB 160g to shoot accurately in my 280 AI hunting rifle. The barrel is a 9.25 twist Hart that is 26" long. It shoots Sierras, Hornady ELD-X's, and Bergers great. It is the old reamer before Nosler. I am working (attempting anyway) up a load for an Elk hunt later this year in Utah but struggling to make them shoot consistent. It is the regular Accubond not the long range variety.

Others seem to be able to make them shoot but I have not had any luck. I have H1000, H4831SC, H4350, and RL23 on hand. Currently the brass is Winchester that was fireformed in my chamber. I'm shooting CCI LR Mag primers. I have ordered a box of Nosler brass to see if that helps. Suggestions appreciated.

Kris

It's always the powder, it's always the powder. I don't want to repeat myself. Guns don't (like) or (dislike) a bullet. I recently tested 70 grain accubond in 22-250, the powder's i thought were going to be best weren't. One powder was incredible. It was R17. This gun with this bullet just required that powder. You have many options to try, R26 is one. As for testing i just load a small # of each powder until you hit gold. You might get lucky and find the right powder soon. I have demonstrated this to some of my friends over the years and they always say, i thought my gun just didn't like that bullet !

 

[DLALLDER]

Down size the bullet to a 150 LR Accubond and run it faster and see what happens. Elk are not that hard to kill provided the bullet is put where it is supposed to be put.

 

[accuracyman]

I appreciate all the suggestions. The 280 Ackley won't be making this trip but the 284 Win will. After struggling with the 280 Ack and the Accubonds I spun up a new barrel and chambered it in a straight 284 Win. This barrel shoots the Accubonds and Partitions well. I'm fine tuning the Accubonds now with seating depth but it is already more than acceptable. Not sure who it was that suggested jumping .040" or better but he was correct. The groups got tighter as I moved the bullet in. This barrel shoots the Hornady Interbond just as well so I have multiple choices. The new barrel is an 8 twist and throated for the 160-180 grain pills.

I did pull the 280 Ackley barrel and took a close look at the throat with the bore scope. It showed enough throat erosion that it was in need of a setback. I have it in the lathe right now. I am sure it will benefit from a fresh chamber and throat. We'll see if it does any better once I put it back in service.

Kris

 

[284winner]

It's always the powder, it's always the powder. I don't want to repeat myself. Guns don't (like) or (dislike) a bullet. I recently tested 70 grain accubond in 22-250, the powder's i thought were going to be best weren't. One powder was incredible. It was R17. This gun with this bullet just required that powder. You have many options to try, R26 is one. As for testing i just load a small # of each powder until you hit gold. You might get lucky and find the right powder soon. I have demonstrated this to some of my friends over the years and they always say, i thought my gun just didn't like that bullet !

Yep your on to something that probably goes without saying. The problem is, when you find the right powder for that bullet to shoot, often times it's not where you want to see the velocities. Most people that shoot a 7 mag, want 7 mag velocities, not 7-08 velocities. I found that the AB out of my .260 wouldn't shoot at typical 260 velocities for the weight of bullet but rather about 140-160 fps slower before getting good accuracy. I settled on the ELD bullets for that rifle at faster velocities but much better accuracy when I needed it for range.

I appreciate all the suggestions. The 280 Ackley won't be making this trip but the 284 Win will. After struggling with the 280 Ack and the Accubonds I spun up a new barrel and chambered it in a straight 284 Win. This barrel shoots the Accubonds and Partitions well. I'm fine tuning the Accubonds now with seating depth but it is already more than acceptable. Not sure who it was that suggested jumping .040" or better but he was correct. The groups got tighter as I moved the bullet in. This barrel shoots the Hornady Interbond just as well so I have multiple choices. The new barrel is an 8 twist and throated for the 160-180 grain pills.

I did pull the 280 Ackley barrel and took a close look at the throat with the bore scope. It showed enough throat erosion that it was in need of a setback. I have it in the lathe right now. I am sure it will benefit from a fresh chamber and throat. We'll see if it does any better once I put it back in service.

Kris

Do yourself a favor and try the 162 ELDX. They jump very well also. I jump them as much as .0150 with excellent accuracy.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Yep your on to something that probably goes without saying. The problem is, when you find the right powder for that bullet to shoot, often times it's not where you want to see the velocities. Most people that shoot a 7 mag, want 7 mag velocities, not 7-08 velocities. I found that the AB out of my .260 wouldn't shoot at typical 260 velocities for the weight of bullet but rather about 140-160 fps slower before getting good accuracy. I settled on the ELD bullets for that rifle at faster velocities but much better accuracy when I needed it for range.

Do yourself a favor and try the 162 ELDX. They jump very well also. I jump them as much as .0150 with excellent accuracy.

Wow! I didn't think i would literally have to say that a gun will shoot good at( top speed) if you find the right powder but i guess i do have to say it, the gun will shoot those bullet's accurately at ( top speed) if loaded with the right powder. There i said it ! What i do is see what the max load is in the data, then just load 3 of each starting just below max and stopping just slightly over max. Example - max =62 grains, i load 3@60,3@61,3@62,3@63- done. It either shoot's great or on to the next powder. Guns don't dislike bullet's , they only dislike powder type's and amount. The real problem is (preconceived beliefs) that certain powder is what (should work). When what a reloader should do is move on to the next powder until you hit gold. I have seen this technique work over and over. One gun i had wouldn't shoot a bullet until the 6th powder was tried. It then just cloverleafed them.

 

[284winner]

Wow! I didn't think i would literally have to say that a gun will shoot good at( top speed) if you find the right powder but i guess i do have to say it, the gun will shoot those bullet's accurately at ( top speed) if loaded with the right powder. There i said it ! What i do is see what the max load is in the data, then just load 3 of each starting just below max and stopping just slightly over max. Example - max =62 grains, i load 3@60,3@61,3@62,3@63- done. It either shoot's great or on to the next powder. Guns don't dislike bullet's , they only dislike powder type's and amount. The real problem is (preconceived beliefs) that certain powder is what (should work). When what a reloader should do is move on to the next powder until you hit gold. I have seen this technique work over and over. One gun i had wouldn't shoot a bullet until the 6th powder was tried. It then just cloverleafed them.

I think 9 out of 10 of my rifles shoot the best at the upper end of the cartridges velocity. This has typically been my experience.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Took my son on a youth hunt several years ago. It was on my buddy's property and his grandfather owned an enclosed ranch next to where we hunted. He had some hunters hunting deer on the ranch. One of the hunters wanted to kill an elk so paid to kill one. He had a 7mm mag w/140 Nosler ballistic tips. Shot an elk in the shoulder area and put another couple in the elk after the first round. The following morning my buddies grandfather asked him if some of his youth hunters could help track that elk. After the kids jumped the elk a couple times, it was apparent it wasn't ready to die so they backed out. The shooter had to pay for the wounded animal and did not leave with it. About 3 days later, my buddies grandfather found the elk dead. He found that the bullet never made it into any vitals. The other couple shots it the stomach causing a slow death. Infection more than likely killed the animal. While I can't generalize and say that bullet isn't good for elk, I can say that bullet didn't kill that elk. 9 out of 10 times it may. This was that one time it didn't. I've heard many guys complain that the 160 AB will not shoot in their 7mm (284) rifles. Sounds like a common complaint.

Ya a ballistic tip was a poor choice. I have killed 4 now with the 168hvld but I always shoot lungs. If I has a shoulder shooter Id use a heavily constructed bullet ( and a bigger one), and make sure to only take broadside shots. An angled shot on a shoulder blade is still trouble with any bullet. We forget that bullets can deflect off water. Elk can be easy to kill or they can be tough to kill. I find that if you get a bullet through both lungs they are easy. I think most of the trouble happens around that shoulder. Many times a bullet gets the blame for a lost animal, but Id bet if they recovered it most times it was shot placement. A lot of guys say you dont need a big cartridge to kill an elk, and its true, but if your buddy had been shooting a 338 that elk would have been dead. I do like 30s and 338s for elk.

 

[284winner]

Ya a ballistic tip was a poor choice. I have killed 4 now with the 168hvld but I always shoot lungs. If I has a shoulder shooter Id use a heavily constructed bullet ( and a bigger one), and make sure to only take broadside shots. An angled shot on a shoulder blade is still trouble with any bullet. We forget that bullets can deflect off water. Elk can be easy to kill or they can be tough to kill. I find that if you get a bullet through both lungs they are easy. I think most of the trouble happens around that shoulder. Many times a bullet gets the blame for a lost animal, but Id bet if they recovered it most times it was shot placement. A lot of guys say you dont need a big cartridge to kill an elk, and its true, but if your buddy had been shooting a 338 that elk would have been dead. I do like 30s and 338s for elk.

Wasn't a buddy but rather a paying customer on my buddies ranch. I had a 308 win for a backup rifle for my son's youth hunt because he was using archery equipment. In his case, it was shot placement. He was using 140 ballistic tips. Hit the big bull on the shoulder directly. If he had hit the ribs, the story would have been different. My 308 was loaded with 185 Berger's. Much better round for Elk. He turned me down when I offered him my rifle for the Elk. Can't help but know that the end result would have been him taking an elk home had he used my rifle. Hindsight I guess.