Seating depth or charge weight, first?

[urbanrifleman]

What quadrant are you in

Like within my security perimeter? I'm not understanding the question.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don't mean to be dense and I appreaciate your patience.

My past practice has been to (1) shoot 5-shot groups @ 0.020 off the lands, increasing powder at 0.2 gr increments to find the best size group, starting about middle of the powder range. Then (2) play with seating depth to shrink down that group. Always worked in the past. TIll now.

Now lemme summarize what I think I hear you saying:

1. Find seating depth. Start at minimum charge, starting just tuching the lands increasing jump in .0005 increments. Find the best size group.
2. Find powder charge. At 0.020 off the lands, increase powder at 0.2 gr increments to find powder node.
3. Use that seating depth from # 1, and then fine tune powder charge in smaller increments.

Am I still missing it?

To start on the first day I use three shot groups repeated twice and half grain jumps (of course on smaller cases I use .3)

And then the rest of your post would be a "yes".

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ladders work great if you have the ability to shoot long range under good conditions. Certainly the best way, if that is the case.

Groups work best if you only have 100 yards to do workups.

 

[JFrank]

@urbanrifleman You spoke of seating at a low charge, is this test performed in a node and if so where in the node?
Beginning of , middle of or leaving and heading up to the next node

 

[garandman]

@urbanrifleman ... thx again.

 

[garandman]

You spoke of seating at a low charge, is this test performed in a node and if so where in the node?
Beginning of , middle of or leaving and heading up to the next node

What Berger told me is just do tge seating depth at the very bottom of the published powder range.

 

[urbanrifleman]

What Berger told me is just do tge seating depth at the very bottom of the published powder range.

For a vld.

 

[garandman]

For a vld.

I was specifically asking about their new 85.5 hybrid target.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I was specifically asking about their new 85.5 hybrid target.

Let us know what you observe. I'm am curious to see how you see it working out

 

[garandman]

Let us know what you observe. I'm am curious to see how you see it working out

Me too.

 

[rsmithsr50]

THERE IS NO "truth"
there are several ways to get to the end of the road.
some waste a lot of time and money on bullets and powder while producing little

I am a firm believer in
starting at the lands
doing a single step ladder at 200 yds (step is 1/100 of case volume)
look for nodes, small vertical in a joining steps.
reshoot select loads in 3 then 5 shot groups.
then tune length, and small powder charge changes.
hunting and target shooting are two different sports.

Several threads brought this question to the fore in my mind again. I'm hearing conflicting views.

Some say find a good seating depth as the way to shrink groups the most, then fine tune via powder charge weight. Tried this and I had terrible results.

Historicall I've always done powder charge first, and fine tuned with seating depth. I had good results doing this - 6.5CM / 338 Norma .

What's the truth, here?

 

[urbanrifleman]

THERE IS NO "truth"
there are several ways to get to the end of the road.
some waste a lot of time and money on bullets and powder while producing little

I am a firm believer in
starting at the lands
doing a single step ladder at 200 yds (step is 1/100 of case volume)
look for nodes, small vertical in a joining steps.
reshoot select loads in 3 then 5 shot groups.
then tune length, and small powder charge changes.
hunting and target shooting are two different sports.

My buddy does that. Does like a ten shot ladder from the basement to hard bolt lift with a new powder.

 

[BoydAllen]

Generally I use a seating depth that produces very light marks and do a charge investigation, sort of a mini ladder test, up to the point where I get pressure, one shot per charge, over flags on a day when the wind is being kind. I try to shoot them all in the same condition, with the same aim point, on the same target, and look for clusters. For a new powder in a PPC I use .3 grain increments.

 

[Brown274]

Now lemme summarize what I think I hear you saying:

1. Find seating depth. Start at minimum charge, starting just touching the lands increasing jump in .0005 increments. Find the best size group.
2. Find powder charge. At 0.020 off the lands, increase powder at 0.2 gr increments to find powder node.
3. Use that seating depth from # 1, and then fine tune powder charge in smaller increments.

Am I still missing it?

I have been reading quite a bit on the seating vs powder first and think I am going to give the seating depth test first a try. I am wanting to maximize my time at the range so I thought of an idea, if it would be safe to do? I have a plate steel stand for my coax that makes it portable. I can take my coax and bullet seating die to the range with me (private land)

1. Find seating depth. Start at minimum charge, starting just touching the lands increasing jump in .0005 increments. I am probably going to use the Berger method to do this.
2. At home beforehand, load up all bullets in 0.2gr - 0.5gr increments with all bullets seated at the max length used from your seating depth test in step 1.
3. After shooting the loads in step 1, find the seating depth with the best group and then run the rounds in step 2 back through the seating die with the depth that performed the best.

It is pretty much the same, but instead of shooting the powder charges with all bullets @ 0.020 off lands, I would be shooting them at the preferred depth per step 1.
So my question is, is it safe to re-run a loaded round back into the seating die? Would this be OK or should I just do the depth test, 0.020 depth charge test, then combine 1 & 2 and shoot them on another trip?

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Seating depth (if large amounts) can change pressure but charge wont affect depth, so I do charge weight first finding what groups best at 200 yards in the velocity range I'm after. Then fine tune seating depth, then when its all dialed in I play with primers looking to see if any will better my numbers,.. or not. BTW I always start a new load or bullet at .020 off and tweek from there.

 

[rardoin]

So my question is, is it safe to re-run a loaded round back into the seating die? Would this be OK or should I just do the depth test, 0.020 depth charge test, then combine 1 & 2 and shoot them on another trip?

As long as your base or shellholder has a hole where the primer is located to prevent compression of the primer you are fine to re-seat a loaded round. I have done that many times on an arbor press with 'in-line- dies.

 

[bozo699]

I have been reading quite a bit on the seating vs powder first and think I am going to give the seating depth test first a try. I am wanting to maximize my time at the range so I thought of an idea, if it would be safe to do? I have a plate steel stand for my coax that makes it portable. I can take my coax and bullet seating die to the range with me (private land)

1. Find seating depth. Start at minimum charge, starting just touching the lands increasing jump in .0005 increments. I am probably going to use the Berger method to do this.
2. At home beforehand, load up all bullets in 0.2gr - 0.5gr increments with all bullets seated at the max length used from your seating depth test in step 1.
3. After shooting the loads in step 1, find the seating depth with the best group and then run the rounds in step 2 back through the seating die with the depth that performed the best.

It is pretty much the same, but instead of shooting the powder charges with all bullets @ 0.020 off lands, I would be shooting them at the preferred depth per step 1.
So my question is, is it safe to re-run a loaded round back into the seating die? Would this be OK or should I just do the depth test, 0.020 depth charge test, then combine 1 & 2 and shoot them on another trip?

I always seat long and do my final seat at the match. It was safe the first time I can’t see any reason it would be any different a second or third or fourth time in the seating die.
Wayne

 

[Richard Coody]

I really don't think it much matters. We all wind up in the same place. Whatever works for you.

For me it depends.

If it is a range gun i start with a jam. While doing break in I run progressively higher powder charges looking for max. You get an idea of the powder charge it likes. Might even stick with it. Then start backing off the jam. I say .010 increments. I want a node for powder charge and seating depth that is wide enough to last a while.

With a mag fed gun i still run a range of.powder charges during break in looking for max. Seating depth starts at mag length.

You get.a pretty good idea of where you powder charge should be after that. Then 8 start seating depth testing In .010 increments. If i don't find it pretty quick I use the berger seating depth test.

Where ever I wind up with either method I fine tune seating depth and powder charge. It part of the fun.

Realizing that after fireforming you will have.to fine tune and after the barrel settles In you will probably fine tune again. Your target and your crony will let.you know.

 

[INTJ]

Charge, seat, charge, seat in ever finer increments.....

 

[Jennb]

From my experience across numerous calibers. Charge testing first all seated at touch to find the best ES/SD in .2 increments. Then seating depth to bring the group together and all done at 300 yards. Then I take what I have chosen and verify!!