Scoring Duties

[Scott Harris]

That's why I asked because where I shoot F-Class the guy writing score often calls out both the score and the clock code for each shot as well as sometimes notifying the shooter after shot 19 and again at shot 20, especially if the shooter requests it.

Since each shot is marked in F-Class, this information is in plain sight for all to see and mentioning it doesn't involve any kind of judgement call. In other words, we don't consider this to be a violation of the no coaching part of the rule book. However, I shoot in a part of the United States where folks are generally low key and put a good deal of emphasis on being friendly and having fun while at the same time doing our best to win fare and square.

Naturally, some folks might have a different view in some other area of the United States and if mentioning the clock code were frowned on at another range, then the "when in Rome" rule would obviously apply.

Of course, saying something about how much to adjust for a sudden change in the wind, would (I think most would agree) violate the prohibition on coaching.

Here is what the rules say:

http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf
When targets are scored in the pits, the scorer will enter the value of each shot on the score card as signaled, announcing the value to the competitor in this manner: “Mr. Blank’s first sighting shot (first shot etc.) is a .” After entering all shots of the string, the scorer will enter the total. If the competitor requests that the shot value not be called out in slow fire, the shooter forfeits the right to challenge the recorded score. (See Rule 16.1)

The rules appear clear to me, call out the score and include the number of shots on target. Anything else could be challenged as coaching. If, for example, the shooter misses the target during a registered competition, you are NOT allowed to tell him where his shot impacted. That's part of the competition and you would be coaching.

For club matches we DO provide plenty of help if a shooter is struggling or asks for it....not for registered NRA competitions!

 

[Medic505]

Scott,
Is it legal to help your shooter during sighter shots? I've always been under the impression that helping your shooter get on target before he goes for record was acceptable. Or maybe that's how I interpreted the rules. Something that new shooters need to be aware of is they may be scoring for a shooter that is in contention for the match win or a national record. I for one would hate to screw that up.

 

[Scott Harris]

Scott,
Is it legal to help your shooter during sighter shots? I've always been under the impression that helping your shooter get on target before he goes for record was acceptable. Or maybe that's how I interpreted the rules. Something that new shooters need to be aware of is they may be scoring for a shooter that is in contention for the match win or a national record. I for one would hate to screw that up.

If it was, I would expect the rules to say so: they don't. I think that's just something the match officials decided to allow at the Bergers. Good question to forward to the NRA.

Consider, for example, a Palma match with only two sighters allowed. I think it would clearly be coaching to help the shooter get on paper.

Consider a VERY windy day when shooter A has a good estimate and gets on paper with his sighter. Shooter B does not have a clue on the wind and can't get on paper. Is it fair to help shooter B get on paper? that's coaching in my book.

 

[Ringostar]

If it was, I would expect the rules to say so: they don't. I think that's just something the match officials decided to allow at the Bergers. Good question to forward to the NRA.

Consider, for example, a Palma match with only two sighters allowed. I think it would clearly be coaching to help the shooter get on paper.

Consider a VERY windy day when shooter A has a good estimate and gets on paper with his sighter. Shooter B does not have a clue on the wind and can't get on paper. Is it fair to help shooter B get on paper? that's coaching in my book.

Good point. I've always taken it that you couldn't help after they started for record. But I've only ever helped new shooters to get on target. Experienced shooters shouldn't need help. However I had a big screw up a couple years back. Shooting our midrange state championship. All of our midrange is strictly 600 yds. We get 2 sighters than 20 for score, 8 matches over 2 days. We we're at a range that I had never been to before. My first sighter wasn't on target. My score keeper wasn't gonna help. I assumed low, so came up 2 minutes and fired again. Thinking that should put me on target. Still way low. How can that be, I only shoot this rifle at 600 yds. Then I remember the last time that I shot the rifle, I burned up my leftover ammo at 100 yds. Now to make a proper adjustment with my first shot for record. No it wasn't quite enough!

 

[Medic505]

I was thinking about the first round of the day, unlimited sighters. After that I'd say you are your own. I'll admit it, more than once I've shot with a new shooter that wasn't on target the first shot and a simple, you hit between the targets right, or over or low ect, took care of the problem. Maybe by the rules that's coaching. I've also heard radio communications between the line and the pits as to where a shooter was hitting. I guess if you know where you can get away without either you or the shooter getting called out about it, I have no problem with it. When Nat's roll around now I'll ask a line official first.

 

[KenO]

At Camp Perry, long range matches are unlimited sighters, coaching is allowed to get a shooter on paper. If your scorer cant seem to do it, you can call for help. AMU coach Emil is busy running up and down the line getting shooters on.

 

[noload]

(a) Limited Sighting Shots—When limited sighting shots are allowed (see Rules 10.1.8 14.10 (b) (3) and 17.5) coaching will not be allowed.

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1. (b) Unlimited Sighting Shots—When unlimited sighting shots are allowed the competitor may change rifles, and/or sights and receive coaching, before, but not after firing the first shot for record. No additional time will be allowed. In courses of fire described in Rule 17.5(y) and (z) and the 800 yard stage of the Palma Course (Rule 17.5(ac)), unlimited sighting shots are allowed. See Rule 8.2(a) for time limitations.
   
   Scorers DO NOT let yourself be distracted by the inconsiderate bystanders talking loud next to you.
   

 

[Scott Harris]

(a) Limited Sighting Shots—When limited sighting shots are allowed (see Rules 10.1.8 14.10 (b) (3) and 17.5) coaching will not be allowed.

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1. (b) Unlimited Sighting Shots—When unlimited sighting shots are allowed the competitor may change rifles, and/or sights and receive coaching, before, but not after firing the first shot for record. No additional time will be allowed. In courses of fire described in Rule 17.5(y) and (z) and the 800 yard stage of the Palma Course (Rule 17.5(ac)), unlimited sighting shots are allowed. See Rule 8.2(a) for time limitations.
   
   Scorers DO NOT let yourself be distracted by the inconsiderate bystanders talking loud next to you.

THANKS for answering the question definitively Mr. Lundy!

 

[Hollis Wood]

Maybe a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. In the shot "On" call, is that the one that was fired or the up coming shot? Excuse my new guy question, I have not been doing this long.

Example: " 10...6 on" Is the fifth shot a ten and the sixth round in the chamber?

 

[Lbart]

Maybe a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. In the shot "On" call, is that the one that was fired or the up coming shot? Excuse my new guy question, I have not been doing this long.

Example: " 10...6 on" Is the fifth shot a ten and the sixth round in the chamber?

Hollis,
"10...6 on" translates into "your last shot is a 10 and that was your 6th shot for record". This "10-...6 on" is an international thing which US shooters have pickup and tend to use here in the USA.

 

[Hollis Wood]

Thanks for the clarification Larry!

 

[MGYSGT]

It is very important to confirm the "Going for record" call. I was once 10 shots into a 20 shot string when the score keeper tapped me on the foot and asked when I was going for record. I can only blame myself for not conforming the call.

 

[wolley]

As a scorer you are also a match official. Your input will be used to resolve disputes/challenges. You must pay attention at all times. Do not space out. Do not attempt to join in conversations going on around you. Do not get lost watching other shooters. Do not sit with your head in the scope waiting on the shooter to shoot, you should be watching the shooter not the target( in a long range match you have time to see the shot fired and then glance into the scope to watch the trace). Do warn other shooters who are having a distracting conversation near your shooter to pipe down and move back. Do this with hand motions if possible. Do keep other competitors from walking where they are throwing a shadow across your shooter's head and rifle. Do not ever call out, "Last Round in the gun". The shooter knows it usually and telling them will work on their psyche. Don't do it!
When the last shot is fired call, "all out".
Some shooters want every shot called out. A few don't. Always ask. I want my shots called out because I want to know that my scorer is awake.

 

[chkunz]

I hear a lot of shooters call out, "put my target back in the air, I did not shoot". This is not good thing to do and if that command is given to the pits it can cause problems. Sometimes there is a crossfire and sometimes the pits pull by mistake, either way you need to give the pits time to take the appropriate action. If your target goes down and you did not shoot, just be sure that your score keeper is awake and knows that you did not shoot and wait until your target comes back up. If you are keeping score and your shooter does not shoot but the target goes down just communicate with your shooter that you know what has happened and you and the shooter wait patiently until the target comes up. If this happens several times during the string it is good for the score keeper to let the line official know that the shooter is due additional time to finish the string if needed.

 

[Immike]

BTW, you will need a chair and a spotting scope. A clip board and pen is mighty handy also.