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Scopes....Diminishing Returns???

I think we all have different eyes. Some of our brains work differently. I started shooting better scores instantly when going from the GE to the NF Comp. I think partly because of the reticle, my brain doesn't work well with the dot, it needs the intersecting lines in the reticle. Also, I could see more through the mirage with my Comp vs the GE. I made the mistake of trying out a Majesta and could much more through mirage than my Comp, but for price and weight, I didn't think it was a worthwhile investment for me.
 
At a match several weeks ago I was sitting with my NF Competion staring through the haze, mirage, brillant sun,....you name it, the 300 yard target pretty much looked like a blank sheet of white paper. Fellow on my right had a March Majesta, shooter too my left had a Vortex. Guy with the Majesta was at least 35 years younger than I was. He complained out loud that he could not see. I laughed as did the fellow on my left. About 30 seconds later we could all see the target and holes for a brief moment until it went blank again, for all. Big difference in our investments, pretty much the same results. Read and hear the tales from the Tackdriver, same deal......can't see regardless of brand and price.
Sould make a guy think.
There's a whole bunch of guys out there that don't even know what a Nightforce is, and then "mils" (whatever that is) gets tossed into the mix (instant Crickets chirping). The nearly whole shooting world is and has been running on lesser "normal" brands for a long time. There's only so much that money can buy.

Danny
 
I think we all have different eyes. Some of our brains work differently. I started shooting better scores instantly when going from the GE to the NF Comp. I think partly because of the reticle, my brain doesn't work well with the dot, it needs the intersecting lines in the reticle. Also, I could see more through the mirage with my Comp vs the GE. I made the mistake of trying out a Majesta and could much more through mirage than my Comp, but for price and weight, I didn't think it was a worthwhile investment for me.
We all like different things. I like floating dots. Two crosshairs, a horizontal and a vertical make me feel like I am lining up,iron sights......Two separate things.
 
Lets argue.....Jeff's point is spot on to a simple reasoning. The "best"
glass is engineered to be as perfect as can be with current tech, and
in "perfect", steady, conditions. Lets put it this way.....You can get a
scope that will show a fly on the wall. You can get a scope that will
show you that the fly has fleas. You can get a scope that will show
those fleas have balls......Now with that most extreme and expensive
glass, with high magnification numbers, bad conditions now become
nuts.....In perfect conditions, the top tier, high end glass will be superior,
but you only need to hit the fly......

Lets argue.....
that's a great point.

I shoot mostly NRL PRS matches, and about 7 years ago, I sold 3 Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x and bought one Tangent Theta 5-25.
Since, I sold the TT and only took a slight hit, (2-300 loss) and bought back 2 Bushnells...a Gen1 ERS and XRS...and plenty of other great options that don't cost $4000.

After all...I'm shooting at 1-2 MOA steel plates.
 
My Ares is the 4.5-30. I came back from the range today and it continues to impress me. I'm ready to get my hands on a Cronus.

They offer a couple of different reticles that are similar, but have different size cross hairs.
For me, the new Ares G2 is better than my Burris XTR PRO3 and my Cronus g2 in every area,except reticle is a bit heavy,but it comes with the best flip back caps I have ever used,metal,spin on themsevles once tighten, front will fit my Burris XTR pro.
NRL22,ELR,Long gong,BR and silhouette here. I have used Viper,early Arken EP 5, Cronus G2, NFnx8, , Zeiss S3,Burris XTR pro 3 ,Ares g2 and DNT in ELR, long gong and NRL,. My practice NRL rifle wheres a DNT the one,great value.
My NRL 22, ELR22,long gong wheres the G2 Ares.
I am having a hard time getting used to the Ares reticle compared to the SCR2,but being a lefty,I have to reach around the front of the turret for parallax adjustment.The Ares has short audible/felt turrets,dial below zero and a easy half turn parallax.
For my 66 year old eyes,the Athlon Ares g2 4.5-30 for me, does a better job than the Zeiss S3,Cronus and Burris in glass,price and features.I do love the SCR2 reticle on the Burris,best for speed.
 
For me, the new Ares G2 is better than my Burris XTR PRO3 and my Cronus g2 in every area,except reticle is a bit heavy,but it comes with the best flip back caps I have ever used,metal,spin on themsevles once tighten, front will fit my Burris XTR pro.
NRL22,ELR,Long gong,BR and silhouette here. I have used Viper,early Arken EP 5, Cronus G2, NFnx8, , Zeiss S3,Burris XTR pro 3 ,Ares g2 and DNT in ELR, long gong and NRL,. My practice NRL rifle wheres a DNT the one,great value.
My NRL 22, ELR22,long gong wheres the G2 Ares.
I am having a hard time getting used to the Ares reticle compared to the SCR2,but being a lefty,I have to reach around the front of the turret for parallax adjustment.The Ares has short audible/felt turrets,dial below zero and a easy half turn parallax.
For my 66 year old eyes,the Athlon Ares g2 4.5-30 for me, does a better job than the Zeiss S3,Cronus and Burris in glass,price and features.I do love the SCR2 reticle on the Burris,best for speed.
Thanks for the reply. I bought my Ares just on videos and others opinions of it. I really like it. Before I plunk down the money on a new one, I'll have to look through it and see how it compares. (Especially when it's S3 money)

Thank you, sir!
 
Any opinions on the vortex viper pst gen 2. I have a 5x25 and am on the fence about it. Some days I think it's good, then some days it seems cloudy. I'll have it out on Sunday shooting at distance, maybe i learn more then.
 
Any opinions on the vortex viper pst gen 2. I have a 5x25 and am on the fence about it. Some days I think it's good, then some days it seems cloudy. I'll have it out on Sunday shooting at distance, maybe i learn more then.
It's my usual recommendation for folks who need FFP and a zero-stop. It seems to be the sweet spot for price, glass quality, and features (lot of folks who are asking me are looking for a PRS-style, and MRAD + zero stop is a requirement). The Vortex warranty doesn't hurt either, especially for folks looking at used glass.
 
I have Trijicon on my hunting guns and they perform flawlessly and one leica I purchased a long time ago and it is awesome HOWEVER when I set out to build 2 F_Open rifles I looked through every scope I could at the range.. March Majest, Nighforce Comp Trijicon 10 mile…. Anyway I recommend going to the range and asking to take a good look.. everyones eyes are different. I ended up with Nighforce Comp.. it just fit my eye and was super clear.. the Majesta had too many filters (or so I think) it was darker in my opinion.. also make sure you LOVE the reticle and the March F Class reticle was just way to busy for me anyway.
 
Had a short range day yesterday after our day long rains we severally
needed. I purposely went out late morning into the afternoon to catch a
heavy mirage against targets to be shot at the Tack Driver. Not as bad
mirage wise as i would have liked but......The TD is 300 meters, and at
our range is 300 yards max. Took 3 scopes. The NF comp is on the rifle
i will be shooting (DDR-2). My Bushnell XRS is mounted on my Grandsons
CZ-457, and my March High master 10-60 (MTR-2) is back in the box as
a spare.......Since the Bushnell's max power is 30X, the other 2 scopes were
set the same.....I have done this test several times in the past so, just keeping
the faith.....

Brightness at 30 power with clear blue sky's at 12:15 pm using no sun shields.
Scopes set side by side so I could easily go back and forth.
The Bushnell and NF were very much the same with the March being darker.

Mirage wise, (not heavy) all were very close at 30X and set the Bushnell aside,
At 1:00 PM the mirage kicked in and set March and NF to 40X. Both were very
close to be in the clear but NF brighter. I then bumped them both to NF's full
55X.......Pun intended; The NF was the clear winner. As the target looked more
like a ball of fuzz, the NF made the IBS Hunter targets large red rings to be
more distinct and easier to bracket......Every ones eyes are differrent, but at
this point and doing this test several times and on different day's the NF gets
the nod for the trip to Orangeburg.

A little side note......My 60 power Nikon Prostaff spotter with 82mm objective
will handily out perform the March's 56mm objective, and it's not using ED
glass.......
 
I used to be content with Bushnell, then upgraded to Vortex, then to Schmidt & Bender, Kahles, ZCO… and today I’m running a Hensoldt ZF 3.5-56. That progression taught me something very clear: you usually get what you pay for in optics—not just in glass, but in everything that makes a scope reliable in the field.

When you go from “good” to “elite,” the difference isn’t always what you see through the lens. It’s in build, in repeatability, in resilience under stress, in turret mechanics, in how the scope handles abuse. I think of it like diving watches: sure, a cheap one might keep time, but a serious diver pays big money for sealing, durability, movement precision, and warranties. Same with scopes.

Now: that’s not to say the optical performance (glass, coatings, aberration control) doesn’t matter. It absolutely does. But once you’re comparing scopes that already have very good glass, all the extra mechanical, structural, ergonomic advantages become the deciding factor.

To me, the moral is: if you plan to push distances, deal with real environmental extremes, and demand that your gear do more than just work, then investing in the mechanical and build side is justified. The optics won’t compensate for a scope that drifts, shifts, or mechanically fails when you need it most.
 

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