Scopes....Diminishing Returns???

[JEFFPPC]

A new bbl will last around 1000 rounds...odds are that will be 10 to 20 shooting sessions. Odds are that 75 percent of those sessions will have conditions you wish you had the 80x. Get you a Tasco and get a couple more bbls while at it, and put the odds in your favor. Heck iron sights worked for Davy Crockett!

1000? I figure 2000 most are still competitive, ppc and br based.

 

[Ranger188]

I've mentioned this in other scope threads.
Everyones eyes see differently through a scope.
I have or had a NF comp. Trijicon tenmile, March Majesta and 10-60 HM
Vortex GE, Sightron SIII and a few more.
The NF comp. is about as good as it gets for the price.
The Trijicon is a real sleeper for the price.
The March scopes are really nice but I don't think you get the $1000 or $2000
extra your paying in that much better of a scope, maybe $500 for the Majesta's
extra power 80x (and it does get darker and grainier past 60x)
I'm still looking for that scope that just WOW's me when I look through it.
Hasn't happened yet.

 

[6BRA]

1000? I figure 2000 most are still competitive, ppc and br based.

In 2 years, I have only backed the Majesta's down twice. It stays on 80 most of the time.
I recall twice having to back down to 60x. Not saying the conditions cant be that bad, I just haven't seen them yet.

 

[Tangent]

I have the Delta Stryker aka Trijicon, it's great for the money. I've not felt at a disadvantage having looked through Nightforce and March scopes. Far more difference in shooter skills. If you can see the target and the turrets are repeatable the rest are quality of life attributes.

I have looked through a ZCO, seemed very nice, the price too! I'd like to look through a K40i...

 

[std7mag]

Why not buy best scope money can buy?

Who's money are we using?

My budget doesn't allow anything near the top tier of glass.

I always wanted a US Optics Foundation Series.

Hard to do with a $400-500 budget.

 

[effendude]

I've said for years it really is hard to beat a NF BR scope in 12-42X. Often found used for $1000, track great and excellent glass for the money
Scott

 

[Shooter13]

1000? I figure 2000 most are still competitive, ppc and br based.

LOL you're not shooting hot enough! In reality I'm getting between 1400 to 1600 on the 6 & 22PPCs

 

[foxguy]

In 2 years, I have only backed the Majesta's down twice. It stays on 80 most of the time.
I recall twice having to back down to 60x. Not saying the conditions cant be that bad, I just haven't seen them yet.

Curius,

Have you used the Majesta's in heavy mirage (BR Shooting), does the Target image clear up nicely?
If so, I suspect you are dialing down the Power Level?

 

[357Mag]

At a match several weeks ago I was sitting with my NF Competion staring through the haze, mirage, brillant sun,....you name it, the 300 yard target pretty much looked like a blank sheet of white paper. Fellow on my right had a March Majesta, shooter too my left had a Vortex. Guy with the Majesta was at least 35 years younger than I was. He complained out loud that he could not see. I laughed as did the fellow on my left. About 30 seconds later we could all see the target and holes for a brief moment until it went blank again, for all. Big difference in our investments, pretty much the same results. Read and hear the tales from the Tackdriver, same deal......can't see regardless of brand and price.
Sould make a guy think.

Jeff -

Howdy !

Wanna add a monkey wrench to the works ? Have someone well versed on the topic …tell you where the various scope manufactures source their glass from.

My NBRSA shooting buddy used to work on high-resolution satellite optics.
He has told me in the past, that the list of rifle scope quality glass vendors is pretty short.
It’s not like they all make their own glass. What if one manufacturer whose scope you are considering is priced hundreds more ( or even more still, dollars ) than another manufacturers similar offering…. and you discovered that they both use glass from the same source ? Would the remaining features on the higher-price scope make the additional cost worthwhile ? Of course, this situation is likely also to be found across the spectrum of all scopes offered. What do you really want to buy ?

As someone exposed to Bausch & Lomb products like microscopes, telescopes, binoculars and so forth… going with a B & L for my first varmint rifle scope made sense to me. I had confidence in their optics qualities. Bushnell was a lower price point scope line from B & L, and I had confidence in their scopes; too.

After the intervening decades of groundhog shooting and the occasional accuracy rifle contest, I decided to give myself a retirement gift. I had informed my wife, that I intended to spend enough $$$ to purchase a top tier scope, looking @ NF, Leopold; and March offerings. I liked the concept of having a built-in “ spotting scope “ feature the 80X March offered. Thought I had myself basically self-hypnotized to make the purchase.

I was already varminting with a 2X- boosted T-36, and when I found out I could purchase a new T-36X on-line from Walmart for $660…. I stepped off !
I also rechecked my “ booster “ math, and found I needed a 2.5X booster. I admit boosters aren’t for everyone… but they worked for me ( included target shooting out to 500yd ).

I had it in my mind that thr T-36XR was a 30mm, and was surprised after I lapped the 30mm Ken Farrel rings, and then layerd the XR’s 1” tube in place. Once installed with correct rings, I was thrilled to see not only the small knot hole in a fence 100yd away…
but also the small spider-like cracks in the knot hole radiating out from the center.
Man… that side parallax adjust knob made a bunch of difference. It was my first 3knob scope. I carefully looked at the glass’ edge and optical clarity edge-to-edge; and was quite pleased.

Cutting through mirage is one challenge. But, there are a variety of scope features worthy of the ( sometimes ) added cost.

With regards,
357Mag

 

[JEFFPPC]

Jeff -

Howdy !

Wanna add a monkey wrench to the works ? Have someone well versed on the topic …tell you where the various scope manufactures source their glass from.

My NBRSA shooting buddy used to work on high-resolution satellite optics.
He has told me in the past, that the list of rifle scope quality glass vendors is pretty short.
It’s not like they all make their own glass. What if one manufacturer whose scope you are considering is priced hundreds more ( or even more still, dollars ) than another manufacturers similar offering…. and you discovered that they both use glass from the same source ? Would the remaining features on the higher-price scope make the additional cost worthwhile ? Of course, this situation is likely also to be found across the spectrum of all scopes offered. What do you really want to buy ?

As someone exposed to Bausch & Lomb products like microscopes, telescopes, binoculars and so forth… going with a B & L for my first varmint rifle scope made sense to me. I had confidence in their optics qualities. Bushnell was a lower price point scope line from B & L, and I had confidence in their scopes; too.

After the intervening decades of groundhog shooting and the occasional accuracy rifle contest, I decided to give myself a retirement gift. I had informed my wife, that I intended to spend enough $$$ to purchase a top tier scope, looking @ NF, Leopold; and March offerings. I liked the concept of having a built-in “ spotting scope “ feature the 80X March offered. Thought I had myself basically self-hypnotized to make the purchase.

I was already varminting with a 2X- boosted T-36, and when I found out I could purchase a new T-36X on-line from Walmart for $660…. I stepped off !
I also rechecked my “ booster “ math, and found I needed a 2.5X booster. I admit boosters aren’t for everyone… but they worked for me ( included target shooting out to 500yd ).

I had it in my mind that thr T-36XR was a 30mm, and was surprised after I lapped the 30mm Ken Farrel rings, and then layerd the XR’s 1” tube in place. Once installed with correct rings, I was thrilled to see not only the small knot hole in a fence 100yd away…
but also the small spider-like cracks in the knot hole radiating out from the center.
Man… that side parallax adjust knob made a bunch of difference. It was my first 3knob scope. I carefully looked at the glass’ edge and optical clarity edge-to-edge; and was quite pleased.

Cutting through mirage is one challenge. But, there are a variety of scope features worthy of the ( sometimes ) added cost.

With regards,
357Mag

Yes there are a limited number of lens makers but they don't grind the same lens for every vendor they sell too.

 

[moondog]

Yes there are a limited number of lens makers but they don't grind the same lens for every vendor they sell too.

Also, not the same coatings.

 

[357Mag]

Yes there are a limited number of lens makers but they don't grind the same lens for every vendor they sell too.

Jeffppc -

Howdy !

Agreed !

Regards,
357Mag

 

[6BRA]

Curius,

Have you used the Majesta's in heavy mirage (BR Shooting), does the Target image clear up nicely?
If so, I suspect you are dialing down the Power Level?

Worst that I have seen was Feb of this year, shooting 300 yard winter varmint. Dialed to 60x and came in 1st or 2nd..can't remember. 9am Sun came up overhead and moisture cooked off the ground. Pretty bad for a while. Was shootable at 60x

 

[simo hayha]

I think my balls have fleas.....

 

[marchx]

Mirage is an odd animal. But there are different occasions when x80 matters. Also the reticle in majesta is calibrated for f-class target.
If you consider buying a quality scope like NF, Kahles, ZCO or March, you consider couple of factors- quality of glass and coatings and tracking mechanism. Buying a quality scope is buying peace of mind for me. Of course, chinese scopes catch up, but I just would not bring one to a big match. I would have a trust problem.

 

[Lead Slanger]

Me and a friend was just talking about this at the range yesterday. I had planned to put an Athlon Cronus on my WSM build. I have an Athlon Ares ETR on my current rifle and I absolutely love it. I would take it any day over my Sightron SIII. If the Cronus is better than the ETR, I would be tickled.

Now, for the 338 build that is next in line, I have been eyeballing a Zeiss S3 LRP. A big jump in price from the Crouns. That's the part we were discussing. I'm sure the Zeiss is a great scope, and I would hope the juice is worth the squeeze. If it wasn't, I would be highly disappointed.

 

[WSnyder]

would probably help him meet his goals more than a new scope would.

As long as that scope holds zero.

 

[TommyD11730]

I had planned to put an Athlon Cronus on my WSM build.

I love how bright and clear the Cronus is, even at full power. For me the crosshairs are 2 damn thick. Especially when I have an Ares 15-60.
Have a used march 48x inbound to replace the Ares. Should make for an interesting comparison.
My eyes compared that 15-60 ares vs a Sightron S III 45X45. I felt brightness went to the Athlon. While Darker the Sightron was cleaner, more crisp image.

YMMV

 

[mtncwru]

As long as that scope holds zero.

Well yes, that's true of any scope. But after a certain price point (and outside of some specific use cases, like ultra-high recoil calibers or springer airguns) that's a warranty problem, not a "Spend as much as humanly possible" problem.

He had the usual "It's more expensive and therefore better!" mindset with regard to optics. Part of the conversation was how to work through prioritizing an upgrade -- identifying his shooting goals, finding the options that would help him meet those goals, and then matching those options to his budget. A factory rifle with a $1,500 optic on it is going to get out-shot by a factory action wearing a $500 optic, an aftermarket barrel, and an upgraded trigger. And these days there's plenty of options for the barrel and trigger that leave you money left over a nice bipod and some eye protection that fits great.

It's not always "Buy once, cry once," when you're starting out. Sometimes it's "Find the price point that helps you meet your long term goals as best you can."

 

[Lead Slanger]

I love how bright and clear the Cronus is, even at full power. For me the crosshairs are 2 damn thick. Especially when I have an Ares 15-60.
Have a used march 48x inbound to replace the Ares. Should make for an interesting comparison.
My eyes compared that 15-60 ares vs a Sightron S III 45X45. I felt brightness went to the Athlon. While Darker the Sightron was cleaner, more crisp image.

YMMV

My Ares is the 4.5-30. I came back from the range today and it continues to impress me. I'm ready to get my hands on a Cronus.

They offer a couple of different reticles that are similar, but have different size cross hairs.