Scope question from noob.

[cameronalbrecht]

I'm still fairly new to shooting, so my skills are not what a lot of yours are, but I practice a couple times a month and am slowly getting better.
That said, how much difference does a high quality scope make? My current setup is a Vortex Diamondback 5-25 on a Seekins HIT 308. The other day at the range a guy let me get behind his custom rig that had a high end Leupold on it(can't remember the exact model) and I was a little amazed at the clarity compared to my Vortex.
I don't compete and don't plan to, just enjoy shooting, trying to get better, but I would like to eventually be able to shoot longer than the current max 400 yard range I have access to.
My Diamondback was less than $500. Are these high end scopes that are 4-5 times that much going to make a significant difference in group size? Anyone have any direct experience making a large jump from a lower tier scope to a top tier like that?

 

[Sniper338]

Learn to shoot and reload first.

Spending big money on a good scope is buying quality glass, trackability in turrets, quality, and variable magnification.

It doesnt buy you better groups. You can go buy a SWFA SS fixed power scope for 299-399 that will shoot just as good as a 3000 scope. Both will do 1000 yards easy. I have several of them.

But no scope cost has nothing to do with group size. Learn to shoot and reload first.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I would say it could help.
Is the Rifle able to shoot 1/4 min. or better?
Are you hand loading if so what is your load.
Is your rifle Bedded ? Custom Barrel ?
How are your eyes?
Shooting Bench ? Prone ?

 

[cameronalbrecht]

I would say it could help.
Is the Rifle able to shoot 1/4 min. or better?
Are you hand loading if so what is your load.
Is your rifle Bedded ? Custom Barrel ?
How are your eyes?
Shooting Bench ? Prone ?

I "think" the rifle is better than I can shoot. 1/4 min? Maybe not. It is a factory Seekins rifle/barrel. I am hand loading, started that about 2 years ago so I'm still learning that as well. I have 1300 rounds down the tube on this gun, almost all my hand loads.
The load I've used most is 43.1 gn Varget with Hornady 168's about .01 off the lands in Lapua brass, usually use CCI primers. With that load I can average about .85" 5 shot groups at 100. By that I mean a typical range day I shoot 10 5 shot groups and I will get some as low as .4-.5 some up at 1ish, and when I average them out it comes out to .85 usually. A few times I've used the Hornady app to put all the xy coordinates into a composite shot group and that group ends up as a nice circle around an inch.
Earlier this week I started experimenting with Berger 168 hybrids and some CCI BR primers I recently got.
My eyes are not great, but not bad enough to need glasses to drive. Most of the time I shoot off a nice solid bench as I've struggled to get comfortable behind the gun prone shooting.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Aside from the image quality difference, if I was planning on dialing the elevation and windage for longer shots I would be concerned with reliability to do this and have the scope "return to zero".

If i were you i would continue to use what you have and improve your shooting abilities. When you are able to regularly place a bullet within 1/2" of where you are aiming at 100 yards then consider something better.

Note that you might be able to shoot 1/2" groups but they're centered at different places on the target.

 

[Rick Richard]

I always said “you can’t hit it if you can’t see it”. So, yes those high dollar scopes CAN make a difference if you’re chasing the BEST . There is a reason why they are WAY more expensive, however you must make that decision…for me it is. Just saying.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Being that you say you are fairly new, here is a question. Do you have your Ocular adjusted for your eye to begin with? Also do you adjust your Parallax properly? These 2 things are important for clarity.

 

[cameronalbrecht]

Being that you say you are fairly new, here is a question. Do you have your Ocular adjusted for your eye to begin with? Also do you adjust your Parallax properly? These 2 things are important for clarity.

yes, I believe I have them both adjusted properly.

 

[Walt Krafft]

My eyes are not great, but not bad enough to need glasses to drive. Most of the time I shoot off a nice solid bench as I've struggled to get comfortable behind the gun prone shooting.

The first thing to do would be a trip to the eye doctor and get a good pair of shooting glasses so you can see great. After my cataract surgery I dont "need" glasses, but can see way better with them.

 

[Texas Solo]

For me, a better scope made a huge difference. I was using a Vortex Viper 6.5-24x50. In a 300 point match at 300yds, I'd usually shoot 295 ish. I got a Vortex Golden Eagle for $1200 new. The next club match I shot my first "clean" of 300 with 26X. Now a score of 300 is the norm. But...

Shooting the Talladega 600 at CMP, conditions were terrible. A harsh sun and heavy mirage. I fought the scope all day. Then the guy I was squadded with said "look through mine". He has Perfect clarity. I could see the scoring lines easily.
I don't see why he didn't win.

He had a March Majesta 15-80x56.
I immediately decided to get a better scope than the Vortex.

The March Majesta is $4900. Not worth it for you, but I'm a competitive guy, I WANT TO WIN.
I couldn't afford the Majesta, but ordered the March X, High Master 10-60x56. It's the same scope but to 60x not 80x. The price drops to $3400.

So to answer your question, YES.
A high end scope can/will increase your scores. It's just about how bad you want those extra points.

 

[wkdickinson]

Check out Sightron - extremely good value, great glass (especially their ED glass) for the price!

 

[std7mag]

@cameronalbrecht,

From my experience, there is no optical difference between the Diamondback series and the Crossfire II series of scopes.
Although the Diamondback will cost twice as much.
If I were you and can afford $400-500 glass, skip Diamondback series and go to the Viper!!

Going to a higher quality of glass is night and day!
But you don't necessarily need to break the budget for really decent glass.

I've stayed away from Leupold simply because of the price, and they don't offer the features that I'm looking for.

Sightron, especially used, offers decent quality glass at a price that is more affordable.
Picture is bright, and while being a little klunky, the controls function well.

The scopes that have impressed me within the past few years has been Crimson Trace!
Good glass! Smooth, reliable controls! And priced right!

 

[cameronalbrecht]

thx for all the replies, I think I will keep practicing, and start saving toward better glass being my next non component purchase.

 

[ken158]

Clarity of the lens and repeatable adjustments are what you get in a high end scope. You gotta be able to see good in order to get tight groups. It also goes without saying that your equipment: rifle, loads, bench, rest, etc are all part of small groups. Like most, I started with scope brands that I couldn’t even trade off or sell at a gun show. I now have high end scopes for all my needs from black powder to competition shooting.

 

[ELR LVR]

I'm still fairly new to shooting, so my skills are not what a lot of yours are, but I practice a couple times a month and am slowly getting better.
That said, how much difference does a high quality scope make? My current setup is a Vortex Diamondback 5-25 on a Seekins HIT 308. The other day at the range a guy let me get behind his custom rig that had a high end Leupold on it(can't remember the exact model) and I was a little amazed at the clarity compared to my Vortex.
I don't compete and don't plan to, just enjoy shooting, trying to get better, but I would like to eventually be able to shoot longer than the current max 400 yard range I have access to.
My Diamondback was less than $500. Are these high end scopes that are 4-5 times that much going to make a significant difference in group size? Anyone have any direct experience making a large jump from a lower tier scope to a top tier like that?

How much difference?
Don't know your current grouping ability
Shooter ability has a lot to do with it
---
The better the scope the clearer the glass is, the better tracking the turrets are,
the better materials it is made out of for the long run.
---
FWIW, I printed this 3 shot group with a $69 Cabelas Scope on 7x Power at 100 yds
But it would have been much easier with a better scope
---
Practicing with irons, plays a big role on minute fine details and lining up your reticle
But the scope must be repeatable as much as the shooter
---
Your Vortex is probably fine, if it stays clear at whatever distance you shoot and at whatever power setting you have it set on.
Run a Box test once in awhile to keep track of tracking

 

[cameronalbrecht]

How much difference?
Don't know your current grouping ability
Shooter ability has a lot to do with it
---
The better the scope the clearer the glass is, the better tracking the turrets are,
the better materials it is made out of for the long run.
---
FWIW, I printed this 3 shot group with a $69 Cabelas Scope on 7x Power at 100 yds
But it would have been much easier with a better scope
---
Practicing with irons, plays a big role on minute fine details and lining up your reticle
But the scope must be repeatable as much as the shooter
---
Your Vortex is probably fine, if it stays clear at whatever distance you shoot and at whatever power setting you have it set on.
Run a Box test once in awhile to keep track of tracking

I would say my shooting ability/eyesight is not good, not as good a my equipment at least. I average .8" for 5 shot groups(I keep a spreadsheet from range session to range session). I think my equipment is better than me cuz last week I took my son and his girlfriend out shooting. She had never shot a gun before that day, and my son has only shot a handful of times. Both of them were able to get .5 and .6" 5 shot groups with my rifle and my handloads on their first try.

 

[ELR LVR]

I would say my shooting ability/eyesight is not good, not as good a my equipment at least. I average .8" for 5 shot groups(I keep a spreadsheet from range session to range session). I think my equipment is better than me cuz last week I took my son and his girlfriend out shooting. She had never shot a gun before that day, and my son has only shot a handful of times. Both of them were able to get .5 and .6" 5 shot groups with my rifle and my handloads on their first try.

I feel for ya
And I gotta say, I have heard for some reason girls/women seem to surprise us with their beginners skill
Something to do with be able to multi task better I believe.
---
Anyway, you might look through some higher end scopes or 34mm tube scopes just to see if they offer anything further for you before just picking one
---
Before I stepped it up I did the same, and did a lot of months of research and narrowed it down to
S&B PMII
or Kahles
But I looked through, Steiners, Nightforces, Leupolds etc
They were all GOOD
But the Kahles simply jumped out at me - Instantly when I looked through it at 400 yds
(Furthest sight picture I could get in the parking lot of a High End Store)
---
I hated, simply Hated the fact I could have bought another used truck or something I thought would be more useful than a scope
Since I already had Bausch & Lombs and Leupolds
Did I really need a Kahles?
(Which BTW, if you find a 6-24 or 12-32 Balvar Scope, they are very clear glass for good priced used)
---
Well for ELR, yes, I needed better than what I had and I did not once have buyers remorse after I started using it, and looking it through it every time I shot with it.
Less Eye Fatigue after long shooting sessions was just one aspect.
Easier and more forgiving to simply get behind the scope quickly.
It saw through Mirage, it saw trees at 1300 yds in the moonlight, it just...was not comparable to $700 scopes, it was in a different class of Optic. that I had no idea existed
I did look through a Trijicon Tars and that also impressed me, but seemed about the Same Glass Quality but of course
Similar price
---
Point being, I am glad I was able to compare them all visually before thinking
Well $2k should be good enough for a better scope
And if I had bought the $2K Steiner and realized for a little more I could have had the Kahles
I would have kicked myself for not holding out.
---
We tend to think that we set the standard of quality for our items based on how hard we work for our money
Meaning for $2k it better be every bit as good as those $6000 March Scopes
but it isn't the way it works
There is a good reason the higher priced scopes are higher priced.
Some of the details are small, but they all add up when there are multiple small details put together.
---
You might check out Tract Toric Scopes
I keep reading they are phenomenal glass as good as scopes twice their price
Quality Schott Glass,

 

[JFrank]

I’ll tip my hat to those with an extra 5k to drop on a scope, I had a chance to look through the biggest and baddest a couple days ago.
I wasn’t 5k impressed at all. Mr. Majestic will probably be along to tell me why I’m wrong but I see what I see.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

You 25x is fine for distances up to 500 - on targets. On steel you will likely be good to 6-700 yds. Unless you are competing at a high level ( or have some spare cash) Sightron is a good scope to aspire too. I will be using one at our Nationals next week - and also a March for the long range matches.

 

[gmr4]

The thing about a great scope is you can keep it when you trade guns..