Scope adjustment problem ????,s (Long Post)

[fetchmax]

I have a brand x very reputable scope in 4.5-14 power. I sighted in @100yds. I checked my click adjustment values. When I moved my 1/4 moa elevation knobs 40 clicks up it moved my bullets point of impact 11.5-11.75" up. 40 clicks down moved down bullet impact 11.5-11.75". The scope tracked exactly repeatable every time I tried this. Problem is it didn't move 10.47" (1 MOA=1.047)it moved 11.5-11.75". I sent scope back and the company said it was bad. They sent me a 6.5-20 because they said they had a batch of bad scopes in the 4.5-14's. The 6.5-20 done exactly the same thing. I'm confused and so is the scope company. I sent the 6.5-20 back and It did the same thing to them except it moved 10.5" with 40 clicks. I'm new to this long range stuff. Could my rifle be shooting to a different point of impact or aim than someone else's? I am shooting less than 1/2" grps with this gun. 6.5-284 and Berger 140's. If this scope is off 1" at 100yds it would be off 5" at 500yds, etc. Is this a normal problem that occurs with long range scopes? To me in my simple mind I should dial 40 clicks and should get 10" of change or even 10.47" to be technical. How would I adjust elevation changes if I cant be sure of the click values. Would I just actually shoot at different ranges and determine how many clicks it actually takes? Sorry for all the questions. I'm just not sure if the scope company is trying to blow a little smoke up my rear. They also actually sound like they are trying to understand. He even suggested that I shoot a different scope on the rifle and see if it moves what it is supposed to.Thanks, Confused New Guy.

 

[scout1]

fetchmax, sounds like the threads on the erector are off since thats closer to 1/3 than 1/4 MOA adjustments. Are you shooting a base with additional MOA or a flat base. If 0 MOA how close to opticly centered is your elevation knob. From your 100 yard zero count clicks to the top and do the same to the bottom from your zero.
I would send it back and have them either fix it or have thier custom shop make you a set of turret knobs that match the actual erector adjustments.
Once a scope is zeroed with your load, your turret adjustments should reflect the distance dialed on paper no matter which rifle or load you zero with. Make sure your ammo is consistant, have you shot it over a chronograph.

 

[NateHaler]

I have a brand x very rep I sent scope back and the company said it was bad. They sent me a 6.5-20 because they said they had a batch of bad scopes in the 4.5-14's. The 6.5-20 done exactly the same thing. I'm confused and so is the scope company. I sent the 6.5-20 back and It did the same thing to them except it moved 10.5" with 40 clicks. How would I adjust elevation changes if I cant be sure of the click values. Would I just actually shoot at different ranges and determine how many clicks it actually takes? Sorry for all the questions.

You get what you measure. The problem with measuring stuff, especially to hundredths of an inch for crying out loud, is that you'll drive yourself crazy and your shooting won't improve while you waste time chasing elusive perfection.

Also, why the mystery about the scope brand? That's just plain silly.

If you want to know what ANY scope will do on ANY rifle with ANY load, you MUST shoot it and shoot it enough to have statistically valid results. Thereafter, you can utilize your equipment to match the intended shooting conditions. I guarantee you that top level competitors don't base their adjustments on what the mathematics *should* be, like 1.047" x whatever hundred yard increment to get the proper comeup. They use the information they observed during LOTS of practice.

It's art and science, and a whole lot of factors like wind, humidity, altitude, voodoo, liberals (bad juju) and other inexplicable stuff.

Also, how do you know the range you're shooting is exactly 100y? Did you laser it? Did you walk it off?

Be happy you have a rifle that prints small groups, and then learn your real scope adjustments based on real time at the range. Then be prepared to adjust your adjustments at different ranges under different conditions...

If that sounds like fun, then you'll do fine.

 

[fetchmax]

Yes I am shooting over a chrony. I am using 20 moa inserts from Burris. The scope was optically centered b4 starting. I added the 20 moa to bring it so that I was 10 moa above and below because I needed apprx. 20 moa to get to 1000 yds. I think they have problems with internal parts from the factory also. Thanks

 

[fetchmax]

I don't want to bad mouth a scope manufacturer until I have all the facts. They have been very cooperative with me and even are paying my shipping for returning the scope, and have upgraded the scope model once. It really is irrelevant which company it is right now. I am shooting at a lasered and tape measured 100 yds. This is a permanent range I have at my house. Just trying to get some of your expert opinions on the situation. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[scout1]

If you want to know what ANY scope will do on ANY rifle with ANY load, you MUST shoot it and shoot it enough to have statistically valid results. Thereafter, you can utilize your equipment to match the intended shooting conditions. I guarantee you that top level competitors don't base their adjustments on what the mathematics *should* be, like 1.047" x whatever hundred yard increment to get the proper comeup. They use the information they observed during LOTS of practice.

I agree with the premmiss of putting together an actual drop chart but, when a person pays several hundred dollars or more for a 1/8 or 1/4 MOA scope it better be real damn close or I'm sending it back. This insufficienty also precludes the scope owner from using ballistic software accuratly. Not getting what you spend your hard earned money on is one compromise I wont make. Not everyone on this site uses scopes for known distance target shooting.

fetch, you did what every purchaser of a new scope should do as soon as they are able and thats is to run the scope through its adjustment range and check its accuracy of adjustment. Those numbers arent arbitrairily printed on the turret to make it look pretty. If it dosent track properly send it back get a refund and get another brand of scope.

 

[NateHaler]

I agree with the premmiss of putting together an actual drop chart but, when a person pays several hundred dollars or more for a 1/8 or 1/4 MOA scope it better be real damn close or I'm sending it back.

Until you know that a given load is shooting well enough to be statistically valid as an indicator of scope adjustments, you're only fooling yourself. You may as well measure between one shot "groups" if that's your justification. And I guarantee the scope makers are crafting their products with WAY more precision than you've shown in your spelling.

You expect a level of precision that is unrealistic, because you and the other gear are variables that -- when factored in -- make the equation far more complicated than just blaming the scope. But go ahead, that's your prerogative. Good thing Leupold has an excellent customer service operation.

 

[fetchmax]

Who said it was Leupold? Yes there are many variables. However I consistently shot the same groups as I repeated the up and down elevation adjustment. All my bullet holes were either touching or within a 1/4 " of each other. Am I splitting hairs? Yes. Am I new to this kind of thing? Yes. Am I asking for opinions, spell checking and not bad mouthing a scope company yet? YES. I spoke with the technician today from the scope company and told them to send the scope back to me. I will actually fire it at different ranges, record the data and make up my MOA drop charts. Thanks for all your inputs on this post.

 

[scout1]

Until you know that a given load is shooting well enough to be statistically valid as an indicator of scope adjustments, you're only fooling yourself. You may as well measure between one shot "groups" if that's your justification. And I guarantee the scope makers are crafting their products with WAY more precision than you've shown in your spelling.

You expect a level of precision that is unrealistic, because you and the other gear are variables that -- when factored in -- make the equation far more complicated than just blaming the scope. But go ahead, that's your prerogative. Good thing Leupold has an excellent customer service operation.

The OP said he was printing 1/2" or under groups @ 100 yards with the scope. He also said that the company admitted to having adjustment problems with a batch of the scopes in the originial set up he purchased. He's dealing with an inch of difference here not a couple of thousandths. Who are you to say that he's the problem and that he should just notch it up to shooter error. Were you there, do you know he didn't run the test numberous times. Maybe you should get back to grading your class spelling tests as you lack the tact to help anyone with your finger pointing.

 

[Rust]

While it would be nice to have a scope where the clicks were exactly 1/4 minute as advertised, as long as the scope is repeatable it doesn't really matter.

For instance, at 600 yards, use a ballistics program to figure out what come up will get you at least on paper. Figure out how many clicks that is based on what you have measured. See where it falls on the target, adjust for best zero, and record your scopes settings. Which is what you'd be doing even if the clicks were dead nuts on track minus converting to your non-standard clicks.

Gotta tell you though, I'd be looking for a full refund after the second scope. My time is way too valuable.

Nate - Statistics? It's a binary solution set, it's either right or not right. A scope that is supposed to be 1/4 moa that measured greater than 10% error in adjustment is simply not right.