savage ejector pin problems???

[britz]

I purchased a model 12 22-250 a while back seeking an accurate low cost rifle and I have had enough problems with it. The most recent was a slightly hot reload,34.5g varget 60 gr vmax) blew out a primer on soft rem brass and sent the ejector pin back damaging it and the spring.

I was curious if any of you have had similar problems.

Thanks, Mark.

 

[RJinTexas]

When you pierce a primer it's not at all unusual to damage either the firing pin and or the ejector. Most of us have experienced it or been setting next to someone at the range that has. Make sure it a pressure problem and not a head-spacing issue.

RJ

 

[BoydAllen]

Did you work up to that load with the same components? I always figure that all that a reloading manual is good for is a safe starting load. From there I do a pressure series, usually with the bullet seated .010 longer than touch, one shot per load. On a 22-250 the increments would be .3 gr., and I would stop when I felt the bolt lift on opening getting a little sticky. I usually do this loading at the range, with a chronograph set up so I can keep notes as to how the velocity increases step up. Some time ago a friend went from Federal to Winchester primers without backing off and working back up, he had a similar result. What always amazes me is that it is pretty typical that shooters will fire more than one shot of the same load after seeing an indication of excess pressure.

 

[britz]

Sorry about the confusion, I damaged the ejector pin, not the firing pin! That would have been a hot load lol. It supprized me because It wasn't near the hottest that was recomended. I relize that the load was hot and I definately won't be loading that one again lol!

Headspace is good, about 3-5 thousands longer than a FL resized case.

 

[BoydAllen]

Britz,
The idea is to set your FL die so that sized cases are .001 shorter shoulder to head than a fired case. Are you running your die down till it touches the shell holder? How are you measuring your cases for this dimension?

 

[britz]

I have a Hornady case measure / headspace measure. I am backing off the die so the cases are partial FL resizing to a crush fit, however some of my cases are new and others were fired in another rifle that had less headspace so there are some inconsistancies in the first batch for my cases. When I said that there is a .003-.005 headspace, what I mean is that from a FL resized case to one that has the crush fit there is a difference of .003-.005", therefor the problem shouldn't be headspace. The problem I feel is poor design of the ejector and head up my rear for starting with a mid range load. I just thought I'd be Ok since with every other bullet and the same powder, I was able to go above the max reccomended amount before I saw presure signs. Live and learn I guess.

 

[BoydAllen]

My manual,Hornady) lists your load as over max.by.3 gr. Which one do you use? BTW a so called crush fit is not needed, and may result in galled lugs. Just use your new gauge to bump the shoulder back .001 and you will be doing what many Benchrest shooters do.

 

[fusionrider]

Hodgdons online guide shows that load as mid-range with the max being 35.8gr. and a start at 33gr.

Sawyer

 

[FALPhil]

When I said that there is a .003-.005 headspace, what I mean is that from a FL resized case to one that has the crush fit there is a difference of .003-.005", therefor the problem shouldn't be headspace. The problem I feel is poor design of the ejector and head up my rear for starting with a mid range load. I just thought I'd be Ok since with every other bullet and the same powder, I was able to go above the max reccomended amount before I saw presure signs. Live and learn I guess.

I would think that you would want to full length resize any case that had not been fired in your rifle before.

I have a Savage that I shoot pretty stout loads in, and I have never had the problem you are describing. Nor have any of my Savage shooting friend, AFAIK. The ejector setup on the Savage is very similar to that on a Remington, so I would not jump to conclusions about the design.

 

[jo191145]

Maybe you should be thanking your Savage and its design for protecting you from human error.
Savages solid rear bolt did not allow any hot gases to be expelled into your face or eyes.

What primers are you using?

 

[britz]

A crush fit is what the rave is. It allows you to easily chamber and it centers the bulet in the bore. not sure what you mean.

 

[britz]

Maybe you should be thanking your Savage and its design for protecting you from human error.
Savages solid rear bolt did not allow any hot gases to be expelled into your face or eyes.

What primers are you using?

That is true!

I am using CCI BR2 primers.

 

[jo191145]

Silly me. I was thinking more along the lines of small rifle primers and different jacket thicknesses when I asked that question. Ooops. Turkey makes me sleepy.

Savage tubes are known to collect copper. Not all of em but a good percentage. I've heard of folks collecting copper/carbon rings especially in 22-250 barrels. The end result is very high pressures even with moderate loads.

A good scrubbing of the throat with JB might help.
Anyone shooting any barrel should have some Patch-Out with Accelerator on hand. It removes copper that good.
Not all barrels need Patch Out but theres only one way to find out. Unless you own a borescope of course.

 

[britz]

Silly me. I was thinking more along the lines of small rifle primers and different jacket thicknesses when I asked that question. Ooops. Turkey makes me sleepy.

Savage tubes are known to collect copper. Not all of em but a good percentage. I've heard of folks collecting copper/carbon rings especially in 22-250 barrels. The end result is very high pressures even with moderate loads.

A good scrubbing of the throat with JB might help.
Anyone shooting any barrel should have some Patch-Out with Accelerator on hand. It removes copper that good.
Not all barrels need Patch Out but theres only one way to find out. Unless you own a borescope of course.

No, the problem was that I didn't write the origional statement correcly LOL!

I know what you mean about collecting copper! It amaizes me that this thing shoots as good as it does when you look down the toob and see machine marks yet!

Now I am getting some tighter groops but I'll knock on wood first. Last time I got excited turned out to be a lucky group. but so far I have shot 3 consecutive 5 shot groops with good results

 

[BoydAllen]

A question and a couple of comments

Do you weigh every charge?

I ran into a fellow that was having pressure problems with a 22-250.It turned out that he had so much of a carbon buildup in the throat that it was causing excess pressure. Lately, a friend who does his own barreling, and who has had good luck with his other rifles had the same problem, not so much with pressure but with accuracy. He finally got around to using Patch-Out and
Accelerator and has lost the "lump in his throat". The first fellow used Iosso on a patch wrapped around a brush. One way to tell if you have this problem is to push a tight patch from the muzzle, being careful of the crown. If it gets tighter just before it gets loose at the chamber, you may have a problem.

Please give a link to, or copy and paste an explanation from the other board on this "crush fit" thing. The link in posts above takes me to the index. One thing is for sure;don't mix tight and loose cases in the same group.

 

[britz]

Boyd,

I do weigh every charge to .1 grains.

I clean the barrel w/ 762 solvent fairly often at the time I had about 30 rounds down the tube since cleaning and about 130 rounds total.

What I'm talking about with the "crush" fit is Partial full length resizing. Sizing the case down just so you can feel the bolt close with a bare minimum of resistance. What I have been told is that you are using the shoulders of the case to help align the bullet with the bore. I perhaps didn't do a good job of explaining what I was talking about earlier.

I have always neck sized in the past but since I got into shooting a 300wsm and a 22-250 I have noticed that after a couple firings, the cases tend to get really tight and that seemed to throw the groups off. I also noticed POI shifts from pfls cases compared to neck sized cases. I have made the shift to simply pfls all of my cases all of the time to save some confusion when I dig into a pile of sized cases.

I got this rifle about a year ago and I couldn't get it to hold consistent groups under 1.5". I also had problems with ejecting cases --> at least 1 of every 20 shots I had a case laying in the chamber that had to be picked out by hand. not that big of a deal, but in a hunting situation it would cause a jam. I sent the rifle back to savage and they put a new barrel on it and re machined the bolt head to fix the problem giving it back to me with a sample target shot w/ 40 gr noslers listing half inch group. ,I measured it and it is actually closer to 3/4", but no matter lol. I wanted to get a high BC bullet to fire for LR varmint hunting but I couldn't get 55 nbt, 55SBK, 52Amax, 60vmax, to shoot good,getting frustrated). This is when I had the hot load damage the ejector, and I was getting more frustrated,even though I know it was my mistake)

I tried a 50 NBT and I am finally having promising results. The I am by no means a pro BR shooter, just a novice trying to get all the accuracy possible out of my hunting rifles

 

[rayjay]

You need to remove the bolt head and inspect it. It may be cracked along the area of the drilled hole that the ejector rides in. That hole is just under the surface of the shank of the bolt head and they can split if the ejector is driven back with enough force.

You should remove the ejector when doing load work up.

 

[britz]

Thanks for the advice, the bolt is in good shape. That is good advice to take out the ejector while working up loads! I will likely do that in the future.

 

[jo191145]

britz

Its no big deal really. Midway sells the ejector and spring and all that stuff for a few bucks a pop. Savage ejectors have always had problems ejecting also.

FWIW I set all my Savage tubes headspace to slight crush fit on FL sized new brass. This can lead to factory ammo not fitting the chamber but thats no concern to me. After necksizing for some years I FL everything now.
The theory I heard from a well respected member on another forum was you only get one shot at squaring the case head to the bolt and thats on the first firing using a crush fit.

I could possibly blow some holes in that theory but what I've found is this.
Case growth is greatly reduced.
Any loads you happen to find during the first firing are much easier to find again. About the only thing that changes is the fact that the necks now have carbon in them.

As for the shoulders lining up the bullet with the bore. Thats as contentious as square case heads. Theres no guarantee any bore is in line with the chamber or your die is sizing concentrically.

Bottom line is whatever works works. I've seen an improvement in my loads since switching to crush fit FL sized brass.

 

[BoydAllen]

Now I understand. Where are you on seating depth?