Savage Actions in Benchrest

[mysticplayer]

StephenPerry, please note that in my post I was very clear is indicating test groups shot in DEAD CALM AIR. I never blame my equipment for my lack of skills.

Yes, my match barreled rifles have shot multiple 5 rds groups as described. I have been blessed with a hummer of a barrel in my first 6.5 Mystic F class rig,read all about it as Gun of the week #75) that has shot in the 1's, even in the 0's if the pilot does his job/get really lucky.

At 200yds, 1/2" groups C to C means 1/4 MOA or shooting in the 2's. Correct? At 300m/335yds, shooting 1" and under equals 0.299 and smaller MOA which still means shooting in the 2's. Correct?

I know all too well the issue that some shooters will post the results of one or two hummer groups and call their rifle a BR rig beater. I have no axe to grind, just want competitive rigs and my testing shows these results.

I have a few factory rifles that AVERAGE 3/8 to 1/2 MOA out to 200yds,3rds groups of course or until the barrels heat up and warp). One is a Stevens 223 shooting 75gr Amax. Will hold 3/8" at 100yds until the barrel heats up,7 to 10rds). This has been done by more then this shooter. Yes, pretty amazing performance and why I am a Savage/Stevens fan.

I am not the only shooter with this type of performance. Just look at the savage sites.

Again, I want to be clear that I am not saying I can shoot to this level of accuracy in any and all conditions,I am getting better at doping though). I am saying that the rifles have that level of mechanical accuracy. Now I need to learn to be as good as my gear.

Jerry

 

[StephenPerry]

Jerry
I stated earlier with a suggestion of production rifles out there starting a Production Class. But as I said chances are neither the NBRSA or IBS will start one. Who needs them on this issue. But let me be clear to keep the shooters coming back a moving backer system needs to be used to validate all those teeny groups you Savage shooters claim. I would shoot it if there were one I could drive to. The reason I have trouble with your claims of .1 and .2 groups is because 1. it's a factory rifle 2.you didn't claim using wind flags. 3. I doubt the Savage trigger is the of a Jewell. The trigger is one the major reasons small groups can be shot witha BR rifle. Not to be crude but bring your Savage rifle to any registered Shoot and try and do what you said. Never seen a Savage shoot at a BR Shoot.
But I do like Savage rifles and would like to see that Production Shoot start. Maybe just maybe we might try one on a separate weekend at Angeles BR. Factory means a stock gun, no re barreled guns or replacement stock or trigger. Group shoot only.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[mysticplayer]

StephenPerry, remember that whole dead calm conditions testing. I do put up a flag at the target when doing my testing though just in case there is a gust.

Also, note that I said my MATCH BARRELED rifles shoot this well. These barrels include Gaillard, Krieger, Shilen. Never said anything about a factory pipe shooting in the 1's, 2's.

All of these rifles wear aftermarket triggers with the best being the Rifle basix 2 at around 4 to 6ozs. The accutrigger is very nice for a hunting trigger and 1.5lbs pull are easily achieved. The new 6oz trigger will be something to test but no rifles/actions up here in Canada yet. Again, never said anything about using the orig lawyer friendly trigger.

The main point is that no machine work was done to these actions factory or rebarreled,bolt body yes). The barrels were installed/headspaced on a factory spec action. No truing, blue printing, nothing!

Yes, these Savage/Stevens actions lock up that tight and true right from the factory,excellent QC too, at least at this point in time). The floating bolt head really changes the dynamics and woes of that action. There are many things that plague your garden variety Rem700/Win/Howa/etc that simply don't affect the Savage/Stevens.

That is my entire point of my project rifles. To use a commercial out of the box action WITH a top quality match barrel to shoot competitive groups/scores under ideal conditions. Only the Savage/Stevens has been able to do this on a repeatable basis,6 rifles so far).

I have FACTORY barreled rifles that will shoot 1/2 MOA and 3/8's MOA out to 200yds 3rds groups. That is a far cry from a BR type bughole shooter that does so over 5 to 10rds. Plus, I have yet to meet a Savage/Stevens factory barrel that did not walk/string when the barrel got hot. Not an ideal choice when shooting long strings as we do in F class.

A true factory class where 'nothing' is changed sounds great but I feel frought with issues. As I mentioned in that BRcentral post, you will create another money race as parts swapping becomes the only way to ensure success.

With a Savage/Stevens, you can swap in the best shooting factory pipe you find,some shoot extremely well) and no one can tell it wasn't the pipe that came from the factory on that action!

Also, certain rifles like the new Savage F,O) offers the shooter some serious platform benefits,hefty small port RBLP action w/6oz trigger, fast accurate chambering, BR styled stock) again discouraging those who might show up with a conventional varmint rifle with a lawyer friendly trigger.

Either buy a factory "BR" rifle or not bother coming out. That will not help this class grow.

Factory class has to be either extremely rigid listing everything that can or cannot be used, limiting rifle types by name/model, etc or very open where only certain parts are inspected.

It is not as easy as it sounds due in part by the huge range of factory products that someone might show up with. And the ingenuity of those who really want to win.

Jerry

 

[StephenPerry]

Jerry checked week 75. That's not a gun that's a machine. Any action on that rig would shoot the same if it was squared up. Do yourself a favor and take that to a IBS or NBRSA HB/Unlimited Shoot. I doubt the zero groups but you get a .1 group. at 100. I doubt you have the experience to shoot like you say under the clock and with 20 or 30 competitors around you. The recoil waves around you will make it hard to maintain, happens to all of us at a Shoot. I have a 2 rails similar to your bedding blocks. Honestly Jerry if somebody made a trigger hanger that would accept Jewell and Kelbly type triggers I think you would see some Savage actions at BR Shoots especially in big gun classes. How old are you anyways?

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[mysticplayer]

As I have said again and again, I am not a world class conditions doper. Getting better though.

Shooting in a match is indeed substantially different from shooting under imposed ideal conditions. Never attended a match that didn't have some wind, mirage, time pressures, fatigue, etc. I think my Mystic can and will shoot well enough to win in the hands of a top ranked shooter,F class). It certainly has the mechanical prowess.

I did win a 300m F class shoot last year against other custom rifles and experienced shooters. I know the consistent accuracy saved my bacon several times as I was able to drift them into the X or 10 ring where others drifted out the other side. That only comes from small dispersion rates ie accuracy.

The Savage/Stevens is completely different mechanically from every other action commercial or custom. Because of this, it has been met with alot of skeptisism and criticism. Some justified but most simply because no one has bothered to try.

That action now has a viable trigger group,Rifle Basix2) with more/better ones on their way,the Jewel project is on again, off again but SSS is going to offer something special soon). Tweaks are being done to improve some very real action short comings,heavy heavy bolt lift). All of this makes that platform viable for very little money.

yes, I am very happy with how my 6.5 Mystic F class project rifle turned out. It challenges many of the norms without breaking any of the rules. It shoots very well and is more then capable of shooting possibles in the Fclass game. With the right shooter, it can even shoot a perfect score ie all X's,1/2 MOA) over a 22rds relay.

Not bad for a box stock dirt cheap factory action WITH NO MACHINING DONE.

Will it do well in SR BR? I am not the one to determine that but there are others that are trying. I am sure they will post their results and if they compete, no shortage of those who will post for them - good or bad.

For around $150 for a bare Stevens or $400 for the new single port 'BR' action w/ 6oz trigger, it is a smoking way to build up some very accurate rifles.

Rifles you can assemble in your own home.

Jerry

PS I am old enough for my music to be considered 'Golden Oldies' and before there were computers of any kind.

 

[StephenPerry]

Jerry
OK Jerry so you graduated HS in 1959 I knew that. You have to forgive I am not aware what guns shoot in F Class. At Pala last Sunday some guys shot a small F Class after our silhouette shoot I think one target. Eric Stecker was one of the shooters.
They shot the same guns they earlier shot the Pala Shoot with. 6x47 Lapua guns.
Yours is unique gun. If the gun you show is F Class there must be a large variety of guns in that Class. Shoot well Shoot often.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[mysticplayer]

Nope, graduated HS 1985. The 80's is now old school,Yikes!!!).

F class is the most liberal class for building rifles. In Canada, F,O) has a 10kg,22lbs) weight limit including scope and bipod if used/attached, 3" forend width, safe operating trigger, no magnums and no cal over 8mm. Other then that, anything goes.

My Mystic is likely the first blocked rifle used in F,O). At least one set up the way it is. The rear dimensions are also unique. Most mimic the common BR rigs format. In fact, most are LR BR rifles. It certainly pushes the boundaries of what an F,O) rifle can be.

You shoot for score and each shot is scored/marked so 'gunning doesn't work. Most relays are 15 to 20rds plus 2 to 5 sighters,10 to 17mins to finish relay). All shots are done prone,or club rules) and pedestal front rests are used with bunny rear bags. Same stuff that BR shooters use.

Commonly refered to as belly benchrest.

In this game, the new X ring is 1/2 MOA at all ranges out to 1200yds. The 10 ring is MOA. Don't really know what the 9 and 8 ring is because if you shoot these, you don't place anywhere in the top 10 usually. Under 'normal' conditions, the top shooters will shoot possibles with the X count determining the relay winner.

At most ranges, there are very few flags and you can't place any out for yourself. There is usually one or two at the target and possibly a few more on the sides. This game requires you to read ambient conditions like mirage, grass, trees, nearby shooters.

Big reason the Savage is a viable action for this game. Consistently shooting in the 2's even 3's equals the best mega dollar LR Fclass rig.

Condition doping will always separate the best from the 'fashion conscious'. It's alot of fun and doesn't require mega bucks to play - the whole point of my Mystic rifle.

Family life is keeping me from more shoots but I will get to them eventually. It is alot of fun and I love the "instant gratification" of scoring each shot. A great tool for adjusting for twitchy conditions.

Most BR rigs will do very well at the shorter ranges,inside 600yds)so give it a try.

Jerry

 

[StephenPerry]

Jerry
Thanks for the info. I heard at Pala they were going to start a F Class event. If it happens the same Sunday we shoot the silhouette I might try it in the afternoon I might try it. If you haven't seen our San Gabriel BR School check the Article Archives.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[mysticplayer]

I am guessing you are shooting centerfire silhouette,what cartridge?). If you have a silhouette/open rifle, shoot it in F class Open. I am sure it will do great. I bet your rifle will hold MOA at 500m no problem. You could put on a bipod and fly at it. Or add some material on the sides and use a pedestal rest.

If you like it, just put your barreled action into a BR style stock/modify your existing one. Voila, you can play in two games on the same day with one rifle/two stocks.

It is a lot of fun....

Jerry

 

[StephenPerry]

Jerry
I am a short range benchrest shooter full time. The gun I shoot Pala with is a parts gun I put together to shoot as a Cruiser in Club Unlimited Shoots. At Angeles Range as we did at San Gabriel Range I will schedule 5 Unlimited aggs.
The gun as a Cruiser is 16.5 lb with 6 PPC 1.35 barrel, McMillan BR stock, Leupold 36x scope, Jewell trigger.
I can change it over to my Pala gun in 10 minutes by adding a Krieger 6x47 Lapua barrel with muzzle break.
After trading a Unertl scope I have no extra money in this gun and a Weaver 36x scope was part of the deal.
F-class is out of the question. I can't travel to the shoots that hold the shoots and all my extra shooting money goes into my BR game.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[mysticplayer]

I am not sure what Pala means/type of event but that 6X47L would be ideal for F class. sounds like the rig is ready to go if you can get that brake off. Add another 5lbs and have at it.

I guess the easiest way to try it is to set up a target at say 200/300yds. Something with a black circle MOA across with a central white circle 1/2 MOA across.

Set up your BR rests on the ground - concrete is easiest but grass/compact dirt will work fine too and what most ranges shoot off. I lie on thick excercise mats,hey, didn't say you had to be uncomfortable), try shooting some groups. Just use one flag at the target.

See what happens. The hardest part is actually learning how to shoot on your belly. I have always shot off the bench so it still is a learning curve,a little hard on the neck sometimes). You will likely have to adjust the comb to be higher then normal. I started by taping a rag to the comb. working on making it adjustable.

The 36x scope is useable too. It really is belly BR and most gear is a direct decendent of SR BR. The main difference is in cal, overall weight which usually means long barrels.

If you can, keep going further. things get real interesting around 600yds and beyond.

Hope you get a chance to try it as a competition. Way different from wait, wait, wait, gun real fast, hope it went well.

You just shoot, wait, scratch you head, shoot, wait, curse and/or scratch your head, shoot, wait, big smile, shoot, wait, back to cursing again, repeat until relay is completed.

Jerry