Savage 93R17 in 17hmr?

[AstroGuy]

Don't forget Federal, mine likes the Speer HP's.
Mikey

Thanks Mikey! Appreciate this as well!

Dale

 

[B23]

I have that exact rifle and, after bedding it, it is a real tack driver. My friends also have that model and we all found that the Hornady ammo (V-Max) is hands down the best shooting in our rifles. None of our rifles would shoot CCI ammo at all. Couldn't give the stuff to one another. I think you would be very happy with that rifle.

Your gun may not have liked that particular Lot# off CCI but if it was ammo with the same bullet type and weight the only thing different about it would have been the headstamp on the brass and the packaging label it came in because Hornady 17 HMR ammo is all made by CCI and except for the bullet type, the time/date Lot# it was made and the hotter A17 ammo it is all made to the same spec.

Pretty much all 17 HMR ammo regardless of the brand or label you pick, with the exception of Winchester or Browning labeled stuff, is made by CCI. CCI makes 17 HMR ammo with numerous different bullet types and weights but if the bullet is the same weight/type and it came in any brand/label except Winchester or Browning it's CCI ammo.

Something to be aware of though is they massively mass produce this stuff by the millions and the quality control is far from "match grade" so when you grab a box or two off the shelf from your local Walmart or wherever the chances of it being from the same Lot# are slim to none and this stuff can sometimes have a fairly larger variance in how it shoots and POI from Lot# to Lot#. We shoot a lot of sage rats with 17 HMR's and buy ammo by the case so it's all from the same Lot# and whenever I switch from one Lot# to another I'll shoot it on paper to see where POI is and you'd be surprised how much the POI will change just switching from one Lot# to another. Honestly, with the huge variance in velocity 17 HMR ammo has it is actually shocking it shoots as well as it does. I've had 17 HMR ammo out of the same box of 50 have a ES as high as nearly 200 fps.

 

[AstroGuy]

Your gun may not have liked that particular Lot# off CCI but if it was ammo with the same bullet type and weight the only thing different about it would have been the headstamp on the brass and the packaging label it came in because Hornady 17 HMR ammo is all made by CCI and except for the bullet type, the time/date Lot# it was made and the hotter A17 ammo it is all made to the same spec.

Pretty much all 17 HMR ammo regardless of the brand or label you pick, with the exception of Winchester or Browning labeled stuff, is made by CCI. CCI makes 17 HMR ammo with numerous different bullet types and weights but if the bullet is the same weight/type and it came in any brand/label except Winchester or Browning it's CCI ammo.

Something to be aware of though is they massively mass produce this stuff by the millions and the quality control is far from "match grade" so when you grab a box or two off the shelf from your local Walmart or wherever the chances of it being from the same Lot# are slim to none and this stuff can sometimes have a fairly larger variance in how it shoots and POI from Lot# to Lot#. We shoot a lot of sage rats with 17 HMR's and buy ammo by the case so it's all from the same Lot# and whenever I switch from one Lot# to another I'll shoot it on paper to see where POI is and you'd be surprised how much the POI will change just switching from one Lot# to another. Honestly, with the huge variance in velocity 17 HMR ammo has it is actually shocking it shoots as well as it does. I've had 17 HMR ammo out of the same box of 50 have a ES as high as nearly 200 fps.

Thanks again for this info. There was someone in the above posts that had mentioned the same that CCi makes most of the 17hmr ammo.

As to what you noted on the lot#’s etc… I’ve notice the same with my CZ 22’s. In the end I’ve found the best stuff for mine is the SK Rifle Red box. Amazing stuff.

Sounds like I may need to do some of the same lot testing with this 17 like I did with my 22.

Dale

 

[searcher]

Your gun may not have liked that particular Lot# off CCI but if it was ammo with the same bullet type and weight the only thing different about it would have been the headstamp on the brass and the packaging label it came in because Hornady 17 HMR ammo is all made by CCI and except for the bullet type, the time/date Lot# it was made and the hotter A17 ammo it is all made to the same spec.

Pretty much all 17 HMR ammo regardless of the brand or label you pick, with the exception of Winchester or Browning labeled stuff, is made by CCI. CCI makes 17 HMR ammo with numerous different bullet types and weights but if the bullet is the same weight/type and it came in any brand/label except Winchester or Browning it's CCI ammo.

Something to be aware of though is they massively mass produce this stuff by the millions and the quality control is far from "match grade" so when you grab a box or two off the shelf from your local Walmart or wherever the chances of it being from the same Lot# are slim to none and this stuff can sometimes have a fairly larger variance in how it shoots and POI from Lot# to Lot#. We shoot a lot of sage rats with 17 HMR's and buy ammo by the case so it's all from the same Lot# and whenever I switch from one Lot# to another I'll shoot it on paper to see where POI is and you'd be surprised how much the POI will change just switching from one Lot# to another. Honestly, with the huge variance in velocity 17 HMR ammo has it is actually shocking it shoots as well as it does. I've had 17 HMR ammo out of the same box of 50 have a ES as high as nearly 200 fps.

Yes - and why I noted "V-Max" bullets. The CCI (and most other branded HMR ammo without that bullet doesn't shoot as well in the guns we use. But - every gun is different. I've used other brands presumably made by CCI but not under their name that have the V-Max bullet - and they shot well too.

 

[searcher]

Thanks again for this info. There was someone in the above posts that had mentioned the same that CCi makes most of the 17hmr ammo.

As to what you noted on the lot#’s etc… I’ve notice the same with my CZ 22’s. In the end I’ve found the best stuff for mine is the SK Rifle Red box. Amazing stuff.

Sounds like I may need to do some of the same lot testing with this 17 like I did with my 22.

Dale

It is true that some lots are better than others. I have used probably 50 different lots of the Hornady V-Max ammo over many years, and I haven't gotten a "bad" lot yet - and surely not poor enough to see other ammo shoot better in it in the rifles of my friends and I use. Kind of like getting a new lot of a particular powder. It may shoot 30-80 fps different from the prior lot, but it can still shoot the best in one's rifle. I'd try different brands (which have different bullets) to see which ones might be worthy of testing various lots.

 

[Turkeytider]

Your gun may not have liked that particular Lot# off CCI but if it was ammo with the same bullet type and weight the only thing different about it would have been the headstamp on the brass and the packaging label it came in because Hornady 17 HMR ammo is all made by CCI and except for the bullet type, the time/date Lot# it was made and the hotter A17 ammo it is all made to the same spec.

Pretty much all 17 HMR ammo regardless of the brand or label you pick, with the exception of Winchester or Browning labeled stuff, is made by CCI. CCI makes 17 HMR ammo with numerous different bullet types and weights but if the bullet is the same weight/type and it came in any brand/label except Winchester or Browning it's CCI ammo.

Something to be aware of though is they massively mass produce this stuff by the millions and the quality control is far from "match grade" so when you grab a box or two off the shelf from your local Walmart or wherever the chances of it being from the same Lot# are slim to none and this stuff can sometimes have a fairly larger variance in how it shoots and POI from Lot# to Lot#. We shoot a lot of sage rats with 17 HMR's and buy ammo by the case so it's all from the same Lot# and whenever I switch from one Lot# to another I'll shoot it on paper to see where POI is and you'd be surprised how much the POI will change just switching from one Lot# to another. Honestly, with the huge variance in velocity 17 HMR ammo has it is actually shocking it shoots as well as it does. I've had 17 HMR ammo out of the same box of 50 have a ES as high as nearly 200 fps.

All this is why it doesn’t really bother me when I miss ( sometimes several times in a row! ) a 2” gong at 200 yards. As others have said, it’s amazing that 17 HMR shoots as well as it does.

 

[Dimner]

There was a time where me and my boy would go-to a sandpit up north and plink. 75-100 yards shooting Roma tomatoes that were on sale. And knocking over used shotgun cartridges. Then 200 yards shooting at dollar store shaving cream cans. Super fun. Any CCI or Hornady rounds could do the job. The limiting factor on the shaving cream cans was wind, but that made it more fun

 

[searcher]

There was a time where me and my boy would go-to a sandpit up north and plink. 75-100 yards shooting Roma tomatoes that were on sale. And knocking over used shotgun cartridges. Then 200 yards shooting at dollar store shaving cream cans. Super fun. Any CCI or Hornady rounds could do the job. The limiting factor on the shaving cream cans was wind, but that made it more fun

Those HMR's get really wild in 20 mph winds at 200+ yards. I recall shooting at a bunch of squirrels at 300 yards in a strong wind. Was holding off 2 or 3 feet. Was lucky to nail one that day.

 

[Turkeytider]

Those HMR's get really wild in 20 mph winds at 200+ yards. I recall shooting at a bunch of squirrels at 300 yards in a strong wind. Was holding off 2 or 3 feet. Was lucky to nail one that day.

Ever patterned ( I don’t think “group “ really applies! ) a 17HMR at 300 yards?

 

[searcher]

Ever patterned ( I don’t think “group “ really applies! ) a 17HMR at 300 yards?

No, I never have, so not really sure how big the groups are way out there. I do know that my Savage will put Hornady V-Max bullets into about 3/8" at 100, so I'd guess they could still hold a somewhat tight group out there if not for external conditions - namely any wind. I have shot a great many squirrels at 300 yards, as have my buddies when we have little "competitions". If there is any wind movement, first-shot hits are rare and can result in some pretty big "hold-offs". I rarely try to shoot them much beyond that. I did take a few pokes at some at 400 one day, nearly hitting one of them, so I know it is possible to do so. I think that bullet is moving pretty slow at that point and dropping like a mortar. Not sure how much killing capacity would be left. Probably down to below my air rifle velocity (?). I've never bothered to check the velocity reduction at that range. As a rule, if something is past 220 yards +/-, I reach for something bigger.

 

[Turkeytider]

No, I never have, so not really sure how big the groups are way out there. I do know that my Savage will put Hornady V-Max bullets into about 3/8" at 100, so I'd guess they could still hold a somewhat tight group out there if not for external conditions - namely any wind. I have shot a great many squirrels at 300 yards, as have my buddies when we have little "competitions". If there is any wind movement, first-shot hits are rare and can result in some pretty big "hold-offs". I rarely try to shoot them much beyond that. I did take a few pokes at some at 400 one day, nearly hitting one of them, so I know it is possible to do so. I think that bullet is moving pretty slow at that point and dropping like a mortar. Not sure how much killing capacity would be left. Probably down to below my air rifle velocity (?). I've never bothered to check the velocity reduction at that range. As a rule, if something is past 220 yards +/-, I reach for something bigger.

I would sincerely like to see some video of harvesting squirrels at 300 yards with a 17 HMR. Not saying it can’t or hasn’t been done, mind, but I’d be both surprised and more than a little impressed if anyone can do it on anything approaching a regular basis. The variability in ammo alone would be enough to drastically limit one’s ability to do that.

 

[RegionRat]

Just depending on the temps and altitude, the 17 HMR at 2550 fps muzzle velocity will generally fall subsonic about 280 yards plus or minus. Right up to about the point where they slow to M1, they fly just fine but can get wonky right there. (I run the CCI with 17 grain VMax.)

TLDR: It is effective from a zone-hit percentage at those distances above sonic, but the kills are subtle and not very dramatic. Hit one too low or in the wrong spot and they can crawl off where the same hit with a higher energy might have stopped them. It starts with 242 ft*lbs at the muzzle, but there is only about 50 ft*lbs left at transition.

Here is my typical test for when to clean. The distance is 200 yards with the hold being on X to show the drop from 100 yards. There is a light wind from the right, but I held zero. The superimposed squares are a 1 MOA grid. The magazine looks like a Ruger 10-22 but the magnum version is used for 17HRM and holds 9. This was shot rapid style regardless of wind. I stop and clean if she won't stay under 1.5 MOA vertical or 1 MOA wide at 200.

You can see some vertical dispersion from the low quality of the ammo, but it is more than capable of prairie dog kills out to where it goes subsonic.



Once upon a time.... a rancher asked me to check a water hole cause the coyotes were harassing his cows and nobody had hunted that place in a long time.

The hole was on a little plateau of sorts. To get up there we had to take our trucks up the side of a drainage that was sketchy with badger holes in some places and big rocks in others. Point being we couldn't be really quiet on the approach, and I had to get out several times to look at rocks and holes due to the tall grass.

Coyotes might not care about the sound of the trucks but the sound of one stopping or a door opening will send them running.

He showed me how to find the spot using my OnXHunt, but none of us had ever been there and we were still unsure if we were taking the right approach onto the plateau. As a result of the difficulty of the driving and all the noise we were making, I wasn't ready when I broke over the rim.

Of course, the coyotes were already running over the far side beyond the water hole when they saw the trucks. It was hopeless to try and draw down on them at this point, so we scoped the place out for prairie dogs.

The ground around the water hole was down to dirt from being used by the cows, and we could see the prairie dogs were cozy up there. The rest of the grass was low enough to see them and with the bowl shape to the plateau it was going to become a shooting gallery because there was a little hump.

I positioned the trucks on the high ground and we got started. I used a Ruger Precision Rimfire 17HMR and went to work on them.

Along my shooting zone, the edge of the water hole was about 100 yards but extended out over 300 yards along wide dirt cow trails. The trails were covered with mounds and the pond gave me easy wind readings. There were plenty of tall blunt mounds to ping the rangefinder that made getting the distance easy.

I run with a 100 yard zero and I leave the turrets alone and just use the reticle marks to holdover.

I started at about 100 yards and kept working out to about 250 to 280 yards. I spent most of the time out at that distance any time they were showing and couldn't believe how they would run right up to the same spots where I was zeroed in.

At several points, I emptied two magazines onto the same mound without moving when they would just keep coming to the same spot to eat their friends. I only stopped because I load two magazines and stop to reload them.

Bottom line is, it can hit and kill them at roughly 250 to 280 yards, and then it falls apart. YMMV

 

[B23]

Furthest I can recall shooting sage rats with my 17 HMR was a little over 200yds and I had a right to left 10mph breeze that was pretty constant. It was late in the afternoon and we'd pretty well shot all the close ones so finding them out at further distances was still offering decent opportunities. It was fun but challenging and unless I just lucked out it would generally take me 2-3 shots to walk it in to make a hit. It was odd as well as pretty funny holding around a foot and a half to the side of one then pulling the trigger.

The 17 HMR out past 150 yds starts running out of steam really and any that I've shot out around 200yds was pretty uneventful they just kind of tipped over with no splat factor.

I couldn't imagine a 20mph crosswind at 300yds with a 17 HMR. You'd have to hold more than 6 feet to the right or left depending on wind direction. I think if I ever made that shot I'd head straight to the local mini mart and buy a Lotto ticket.

I've shot sage rats out to almost 350 with my 17 WSM but it was dead calm out and even with the WSM traveling 3000fps with a 20gr Vmax when I'd connect on one it was uneventful they would just fall over dead.

 

[searcher]

I would sincerely like to see some video of harvesting squirrels at 300 yards with a 17 HMR. Not saying it can’t or hasn’t been done, mind, but I’d be both surprised and more than a little impressed if anyone can do it on anything approaching a regular basis. The variability in ammo alone would be enough to drastically limit one’s ability to do that.

I'm not one to need to make up crap to impress anyone. I can think of a lot of reasons why you might say that - but the first that comes to mine is you have never spent any amount of time trying it. If you have a gun that will shoot around 3/8" +/-, put in the proper elevation and it isn't very windy (and know how to hold off), you will eventually hit them. Even if your rig only shoots 1" groups, you will eventually hit one. I didn't mean to lead anyone to believe that I find it easy or that I hit most of what I shoot at, rather I illustrate what these little guns are capable of, from my own experience. There are others on this forum that have shot just as many at 300 as I have - and I personally saw them do it. Squirrelman is one. Variability in ammo (such as lots) has little to do with limiting one on doing this. If your lot will shoot good groups, you will get a reasonable percentage of the bullets where they should go. Not all....... One of the most impressive feats I ever saw was one of my buddies shooting a .17 WSM at 300 yard squirrels. He knocked down two to my one - and I saw him whack about six in a row. I'm glad to have witnessed it. When people tell me those WSM's aren't capable, I just laugh. If I spent a day shooting at squirrels at 400, I'm confident I would eventually hit one, as I've not taken that many shots that far - but did come surprisingly close a few times I did. That might be a 1-in-100 shot endeavor. I won't know till I try it. Til I do - I won't talk smack of those that do.

 

[searcher]

Just depending on the temps and altitude, the 17 HMR at 2550 fps muzzle velocity will generally fall subsonic about 280 yards plus or minus. Right up to about the point where they slow to M1, they fly just fine but can get wonky right there. (I run the CCI with 17 grain VMax.)

TLDR: It is effective from a zone-hit percentage at those distances above sonic, but the kills are subtle and not very dramatic. Hit one too low or in the wrong spot and they can crawl off where the same hit with a higher energy might have stopped them. It starts with 242 ft*lbs at the muzzle, but there is only about 50 ft*lbs left at transition.

Here is my typical test for when to clean. The distance is 200 yards with the hold being on X to show the drop from 100 yards. There is a light wind from the right, but I held zero. The superimposed squares are a 1 MOA grid. The magazine looks like a Ruger 10-22 but the magnum version is used for 17HRM and holds 9. This was shot rapid style regardless of wind. I stop and clean if she won't stay under 1.5 MOA vertical or 1 MOA wide at 200.

You can see some vertical dispersion from the low quality of the ammo, but it is more than capable of prairie dog kills out to where it goes subsonic.

View attachment 1612267

Once upon a time.... a rancher asked me to check a water hole cause the coyotes were harassing his cows and nobody had hunted that place in a long time.

The hole was on a little plateau of sorts. To get up there we had to take our trucks up the side of a drainage that was sketchy with badger holes in some places and big rocks in others. Point being we couldn't be really quiet on the approach, and I had to get out several times to look at rocks and holes due to the tall grass.

Coyotes might not care about the sound of the trucks but the sound of one stopping or a door opening will send them running.

He showed me how to find the spot using my OnXHunt, but none of us had ever been there and we were still unsure if we were taking the right approach onto the plateau. As a result of the difficulty of the driving and all the noise we were making, I wasn't ready when I broke over the rim.

Of course, the coyotes were already running over the far side beyond the water hole when they saw the trucks. It was hopeless to try and draw down on them at this point, so we scoped the place out for prairie dogs.

The ground around the water hole was down to dirt from being used by the cows, and we could see the prairie dogs were cozy up there. The rest of the grass was low enough to see them and with the bowl shape to the plateau it was going to become a shooting gallery because there was a little hump.

I positioned the trucks on the high ground and we got started. I used a Ruger Precision Rimfire 17HMR and went to work on them.

Along my shooting zone, the edge of the water hole was about 100 yards but extended out over 300 yards along wide dirt cow trails. The trails were covered with mounds and the pond gave me easy wind readings. There were plenty of tall blunt mounds to ping the rangefinder that made getting the distance easy.

I run with a 100 yard zero and I leave the turrets alone and just use the reticle marks to holdover.

I started at about 100 yards and kept working out to about 250 to 280 yards. I spent most of the time out at that distance any time they were showing and couldn't believe how they would run right up to the same spots where I was zeroed in.

At several points, I emptied two magazines onto the same mound without moving when they would just keep coming to the same spot to eat their friends. I only stopped because I load two magazines and stop to reload them.

Bottom line is, it can hit and kill them at roughly 250 to 280 yards, and then it falls apart. YMMV

I noticed that accuracy really starts to take a dive on mine at the 325 yard mark. I've shot few past that, though up to around 310-315, still very doable with my Savage. They do sort of "fall off a cliff' after that.

 

[Turkeytider]

I'm not one to need to make up crap to impress anyone. I can think of a lot of reasons why you might say that - but the first that comes to mine is you have never spent any amount of time trying it. If you have a gun that will shoot around 3/8" +/-, put in the proper elevation and it isn't very windy (and know how to hold off), you will eventually hit them. Even if your rig only shoots 1" groups, you will eventually hit one. I didn't mean to lead anyone to believe that I find it easy or that I hit most of what I shoot at, rather I illustrate what these little guns are capable of, from my own experience. There are others on this forum that have shot just as many at 300 as I have - and I personally saw them do it. Squirrelman is one. Variability in ammo (such as lots) has little to do with limiting one on doing this. If your lot will shoot good groups, you will get a reasonable percentage of the bullets where they should go. Not all....... One of the most impressive feats I ever saw was one of my buddies shooting a .17 WSM at 300 yard squirrels. He knocked down two to my one - and I saw him whack about six in a row. I'm glad to have witnessed it. When people tell me those WSM's aren't capable, I just laugh. If I spent a day shooting at squirrels at 400, I'm confident I would eventually hit one, as I've not taken that many shots that far - but did come surprisingly close a few times I did. That might be a 1-in-100 shot endeavor. I won't know till I try it. Til I do - I won't talk smack of those that do.

Sorry if it was perceived that my comment was “ smack “ . Also, I didn’t say that I didn’t think you had killed a squirrel at 300 yards or that it was impossible. Have I ever shot my 17 HMR to 300 yards? Yep, plenty of times. Not at a squirrel, but at cardboard targets with 6” target circles painted on them. Did I ever hit within the 6” circle? Sure did, but I also had hits pretty much all over the piece of cardboard! That’s what led to my comments and I would still like to see those videos. I think you yourself hit the nail on the head regarding the subject at hand. The operative term is “ eventually “.

 

[jwv2001]

Hello Everyone,
I’ve had my CZ 457 Varmint @ One now for about 3-4 months and I’m really enjoying shooting this. I stopped into my local gun shop that I like to go to and come across a Savage 17hmr with a grey laminate stock 21”SS barrel. She was a beauty and I was tempted to add it to my collection.
Anyway here is the link to the gun: https://savagearms.com/firearms/sku/96705

My questions are to anyone that is shooting this gun/model what are your impressions of it, accuracy ammunition that seems to work best with this gun. It retails at $509 and its listed at $479.

Thanks in advance for any info you decide to share with me on this.

I realize that I'm coming to this post closer to the end than the beginning. I have the same rifle as the one you are looking at. I have a little story to relate to you regarding this. I came from the notion that "who needs a 17 HMR, an answer to no question". Then a buddy of mine let me shoot his. I liked it. I found one at Big5, but they wouldn't let me try the trigger. I was not happy, but the price was right. $165 OTD. I nearly choked when I saw what they wanted for the one you were looking at.
I was impressed at the way it can turn a ground squirrel inside out. My rifle likes 17 gr, bullets, Federal the best.
One afternoon, I broke open a box and started shooting squirrels. The range was 80 to just over 100 yards. I lost track, but I went to reload and realized that I only had 7 rounds left in the box. I had shot 43 squirrels. My butt started to pucker over the last 7 rounds. In the end, I went 50 straight. That's my story of the 93R17. I still don't care for the Accu-trigger, but I can't complain about the accuracy.

 

[AstroGuy]

I realize that I'm coming to this post closer to the end than the beginning. I have the same rifle as the one you are looking at. I have a little story to relate to you regarding this. I came from the notion that "who needs a 17 HMR, an answer to no question". Then a buddy of mine let me shoot his. I liked it. I found one at Big5, but they wouldn't let me try the trigger. I was not happy, but the price was right. $165 OTD. I nearly choked when I saw what they wanted for the one you were looking at.
I was impressed at the way it can turn a ground squirrel inside out. My rifle likes 17 gr, bullets, Federal the best.
One afternoon, I broke open a box and started shooting squirrels. The range was 80 to just over 100 yards. I lost track, but I went to reload and realized that I only had 7 rounds left in the box. I had shot 43 squirrels. My butt started to pucker over the last 7 rounds. In the end, I went 50 straight. That's my story of the 93R17. I still don't care for the Accu-trigger, but I can't complain about the accuracy.

Thank you for sharing your story with me! I’m still on the fence with this but we will see how things go after the holidays.

It sure is a prurrrty gun though thats for sure!

 

[outasite`08]

I have a Savage 93 as well. Thumbhole stock. Shoots great. I routinely shoot golf balls at 200 yards. The only limiting factor is the wind. Those windy days are when at shoot near the golf balls. Jeff

 

[AstroGuy]

I have a Savage 93 as well. Thumbhole stock. Shoots great. I routinely shoot golf balls at 200 yards. The only limiting factor is the wind. Those windy days are when at shoot near the golf balls. Jeff

Great! Thanks for that one as well!