Sanity Check on 220 Swift AI fireforming

[Toby Bradshaw]

that was the wrong screenshot, sorry i was asking him about h4350 separately. this was what he sent about benchmark:
"Benchmark for sure. At max charge of that (41.2 gr according to QL, velocity of 3900 fps at 57000 PSI and 100% powder burn) you have an amazing load."

The screenshot shows a max load of 41.4gr for H4350. How in the world is it possible that putting 41.2gr of BENCHMARK in the same case can be safe? These two powders have vastly different burning rates.

You are lucky to have your eyes and fingers. Buy a couple of reloading manuals and follow them.

 

[Raider1v1]

The screenshot shows a max load of 41.4gr for H4350. How in the world is it possible that putting 41.2gr of BENCHMARK in the same case can be safe? These two powders have vastly different burning rates.

You are lucky to have your eyes and fingers. Buy a couple of reloading manuals and follow them.

The screenshot shows a max load of 41.4gr for H4350. How in the world is it possible that putting 41.2gr of BENCHMARK in the same case can be safe? These two powders have vastly different burning rates.

You are lucky to have your eyes and fingers. Buy a couple of reloading manuals and follow them.

Thats my mistake, i have many manuals, but ended up listening to someone elss powder recommendation. Clearly not a good idea. Ill stick with the hornady book and varget.

I just checked on the chamber pressure for 220 swift, its 62k. I must gave been well past that for the primers to look like this. I wont be doing any off book loads any more. I think i got really lucky here. Ill check the outer diameter of the chamber. Anything else i need to check for damage?

 

[fredo]

What was your reasoning for loading a 'ladder test' while fire forming?

 

[Raider1v1]

What was your reasoning for loading a 'ladder test' while fire forming?

I wanted use the fire forming loads vs just shooting them. My biggest mistake was not using the book vs listening to someones ql recommendation.

 

[fredo]

I wanted use the fire forming loads vs just shooting them. My biggest mistake was not using the book vs listening to someones ql recommendation.

What do you mean by "use" a load, vs. "just shooting" it ?

 

[Raider1v1]

What do you mean by "use" a load, vs. "just shooting" it ?

I was looking for an accurate load i could use while PD hunting. By "just shooting", i mean making a bunch of fireforming loads and just knocking through them.

For everyone else, the guy did get back to me. He said "oh i thought you were talking about h4350. the max benchmark load was 35.2."

This has definitely taught me not to go off book for loads like this, and that if i wanted to use QL data, i need to just get the program and learn to use it for myself. i was MASSIVELY over pressure and really lucky that i didnt blow the rilfe apart.

How can i check to make sure the barrel or action isnt damaged? Other than the odd primers it didnt seem to have any issues shooting, chambering, and just minor extracting issues.

I couldnt sleep last night because i felt sick as i apparently almost blew myself and the rifle apart so i i checked the barrel contour and it does match the savage bull contour as it should, 1.060 to 1.00 all the way down. no bulges or odd spots i can see. the bolt looks OK, nothing cracked or chipped. is there anything else i need to check?

 

[JRS]

Look at the Hodgdon loading data, and you will find zero data using Benchmark powder in the swift.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

How can i check to make sure the barrel or action isnt damaged?

Since you didn't have any blown primers or ruptured cases, the action and barrel are probably fine.

You'll probably discover that when you shoot at the correct pressure your accuracy will improve.

Look through your reloading manuals and powder/bullet manufacturer's websites for a powder that gives high velocity with acceptable pressure with 50-55 gr bullets, and try some of that, working up from 10% below max and keeping an eye out for signs of excessive pressure (flattened primers, hard bolt lift, loose primer pockets).

 

[dedogs]

I was looking for an accurate load i could use while PD hunting.

If I were going to attempt this (highly unlikely) I would try to find a load that would get me 3600-3700 fps using H4350 or IMR 4064. I would know that my brass and barrel would last much longer at that velocity. As one of our most prolific posters says "It ain't a race". Many times great accuracy is achieved at less than maximum velocity. dedogs

 

[fredo]

10-4.
Was asking questions in hopes of impressing again upon you the gravity of the situation you'd put yourself in. Looks likes you've realized that, and learned a valuable lesson along the way...

Sure glad you didn't suffer any harm! Hope you move forward and find a good safe load to form cases with. I'm all for killin' critters with fireform loads. I'd steer you toward a real mild FF load that doesn't over stress your brass while forming. That'll lead to longer case life, and help insure that your FF loads are resistant to any pressure spiking from rapid firing and/or warm temps...

And, double check your headspace! Remember, a true "AI" chamber is supposed to be a few thousandths shorter than standard, to allow for that 'crush fit' of new brass...

Be safe & have fun!

 

[6MMsteve]

reloader 17 or 16 works great in a regular swift, h4350 is alright but the AI headspace issue can get you in trouble, I head space a little tighter on the go gauge in my savages, I find the normal bolt stop when haedspacing with the go gauge then screw the action or barrel in just a tad more this gets me good solid fireforming and dies work much better and the brass when fireformed matches the die much better, no extraction issues at all, if this makes any sense, reason I know this Honestly I got mixed up the first time I headspaced my 260ai and added tape to the go gauge, had all kinds of issues the case shoulder was way toooooo looonnnnggg, but I was fireforming with COW so I got lucky, when I tried to resize I could not get the case to chamber, lesson learned. then when I resized the case to chamber I had extraction issues, does this make sense

 

[Dusty Stevens]

glad you learned your lesson I sure hate to see anybody get hurt. always look in a book just to doublecheck- like for instance he says benchmark is great but the book doesnt even list it and then look at a burn rate chart to see if its even close to the recommended powders that way youre doublechecking the doublecheck. your rifle is fine but the way off center firing pin strikes makes me turn my head like a dog hearing a whistle. what I'm wondering is the over/under odds on a swift barrel even making it thru the load workup process when shooting 3 shot groups over that wide of a charge weight.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Send that bolt to Greg Tannel and get the firing pin bushed.

 

[snert]

10-4.
Was asking questions in hopes of impressing again upon you the gravity of the situation you'd put yourself in. Looks likes you've realized that, and learned a valuable lesson along the way...

Sure glad you didn't suffer any harm! Hope you move forward and find a good safe load to form cases with. I'm all for killin' critters with fireform loads. I'd steer you toward a real mild FF load that doesn't over stress your brass while forming. That'll lead to longer case life, and help insure that your FF loads are resistant to any pressure spiking from rapid firing and/or warm temps...

And, double check your headspace! Remember, a true "AI" chamber is supposed to be a few thousandths shorter than standard, to allow for that 'crush fit' of new brass...

Be safe & have fun!

Chiming in here. I am not an AI guy, but am a Swift shooter. Fredo is right, both in advice and in attitude. You made a mistake, one that could have had bad results, and you have realized it. Spend a moment thanking God and move on.
Time to take a deep breath, take a break from this and start over, slowly. Sometimes it takes that to clear out all the assumptions that "stacked" to the point of the mistake.
There is some good advice here about headspace and Savage set up particularly, and I won't speak to that. I will mention that fellow swift owners tend to drive em hard...(why own a Dodge Demon for driving to the deli is the logic I guess) but personally I have been very pleased with my Swift running it a few hundred FPS less than it "could". I have never gotten a complaint from a single varmint. Most of them are too busy trying to get their head together afterward to compose a letter. And my barrel is still "lasting". I run a conservative load of H380 and watch outside temps.

And BTW, if you run that puppy hard in a dog field, figure 800 to 1000 rounds, total, and then tomato stake that barrel

 

[North Fork]

I use re loader 15 and 55gr bt in my 220 AL in the dog town

 

[JohnD]

Got to agree with Toby on this one. QL may say benchmark is ok but but I would stay the hell away from that stuff in a Swift AI. I shot one for several years and H-414 was about as good as it gets with a 55 tho a little temp sensitive.

Good luck and hope you get her lined out.

John

 

[pirate ammo]

when all else fails read the directions

 

[AckleymanII]

Win 760 and H414 will hit a home run with the 55's at warp speed.

Varget has an incredible pressure spike in cases of this size, I found this out in a 22-243 AI 14twist shooting 60g sierra's.

large rifle primers will take a lot more pressure than a small rifle primer. With the little primer flow, I don't know if I would spend the money or not.

Always wear safety glasses, would have lost my eyes on several occasions without them.

Imr 4064 eats barrels in cases of this size, R#15 reaches pressure quick, and win 760 and H414 are just about perfect and are much easier on barrels.

Norma brass has very, very different dimensions vs older winchester, especially in neck thickness and Web dia.

 

[Raider1v1]

Win 760 and H414 will hit a home run with the 55's at warp speed.

Varget has an incredible pressure spike in cases of this size, I found this out in a 22-243 AI 14twist shooting 60g sierra's.

large rifle primers will take a lot more pressure than a small rifle primer. With the little primer flow, I don't know if I would spend the money or not.

Always wear safety glasses, would have lost my eyes on several occasions without them.

Imr 4064 eats barrels in cases of this size, R#15 reaches pressure quick, and win 760 and H414 are just about perfect and are much easier on barrels.

Norma brass has very, very different dimensions vs older winchester, especially in neck thickness and Web dia.

yah defintely learned my lesson with this little messup. i think the rest of what i was doing was OK, but being way over on the charge obviously isnt good.

I was trying to stay with one of the non-temp sensitive/extreme powders since when PD hunting its in the sun and the temp is quite different than here. at least a good 20-30f higher in the field vs my load development. i want to try and make sure i dont take a bunch of rounds out that i cant shoot due to the temps.

as far as the chamber that everyone mentioned, there is a bit of resistance when i close the bolt on the bottom half of the bolt closing. my plan is to seat them to the lands, the 2.450" and start with a medium charge of varget according to the 9th edition of the hornady manual.

what is the issue with the norma brass? or what else do i need to lookout for? they are large primers.

 

[AckleymanII]

My many hunting partners and I shot 760 in S. Dakota for many years on dog hunts.

Normal vs Winchester is like comparing apples and oranges, norma is thicker and may give you more grip on your bullet....

Just be careful with varget, pressure spikes abound and I am talking about going from a little flat edge to a blow primer.

You should not be scared of 760 unless you leave your ammo out in the sun, in addition to running a red hot load to begin with.

Good luck