Runout with FL sizing 30BR (little update.)

[SeabeeKen]

I bought 2 le Wilson's. Both gave the same run out. Perhaps I could try a SAC bushing as well.

I had redding dies that had a lot of runout and started measuring. I found the bushings were garbage. Bushing hole not centered and not the proper size.
had a regular redding fl die in 250 ai that caused .010 neck runout. After a lengthly fight on the phone with redding, i shipped it back. It came back 2 weeks later with no explanation. I called and asked what they did and they just said they reworked the neck. No idea what that meant. It still induced .002 runout. Haven't bought a redding die since

 

[Charwell]

When you shake your die , can you hear the bushing moving inside the die or do you have it tightened down ?

 

[Bill Norris]

I had redding dies that had a lot of runout and started measuring. I found the bushings were garbage. Bushing hole not centered and not the proper size.
had a regular redding fl die in 250 ai that caused .010 neck runout. After a lengthly fight on the phone with redding, i shipped it back. It came back 2 weeks later with no explanation. I called and asked what they did and they just said they reworked the neck. No idea what that meant. It still induced .002 runout. Haven't bought a redding die since

I found Wilson bushings to be much better than Redding. Size numbers actually match the diameter of the hole better.

 

[Kevin1990]

When you shake your die , can you hear the bushing moving inside the die or do you have it tightened down ?

I have the die tightened all the way and I can hear the bushing shaking a little.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Most of my bushings are redding and I only use the numbers as a reference. The target tells me which one to use but yes, it'd be nice if they matched!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have the die tightened all the way and I can hear the bushing shaking a little.

Hmmm. As long as it floats a little, shouldn't matter but I've not seen that. The bushing typically is what the stem stops against. Might check all that since you're having issues.

 

[Kevin1990]

Hmmm. As long as it floats a little, shouldn't matter but I've not seen that. The bushing typically is what the stem stops against. Might check all that since you're having issues.

Stem?...as in the decapping rod that I removed from the die.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Stem?...as in the decapping rod that I removed from the die.

Maybe yes. The stem holds the part that bears against the bushing to hold it down as well as make it adjustable. Got pics by chance?

 

[Kevin1990]

Maybe yes. The stem holds the part that bears against the bushing to hold it down as well as make it adjustable. Got pics by chance?

 

[TIMO]

What is your target telling you, and everything mentioned above has an influence on run out. Being consistent in your loading process is very important

Just my .02
Tim

 

[Webster]

Hey Webster,

Good info and valid points. So I had them neck turned for me, by a guy on the forum. I have a Sinclair concentricity gauge. I am measuring the run out on the neck after using a Harrels FL sizing die with a .326 bushing and a .327 bushing.

I checked the run out on a few fired cases and it was at or under .001. after re-sizing it in the sizing die I was getting .003-.005.

I checked the case body run out by flipping the case and checking the case body. The run out was at or under .001

So, I tried a different die and some 6 BR brass and was still getting .003-.004 on 10 cases. So then I tried a different shell holder for my 6.5 Grendel and a 6.5G case and resized it and had about .001-.0015 run out.

Then, I tried another shell holder for my .223 rem and sized some fired cases, and again had about .001-.0015 run out.

So I think the culprit is the shell holder, because on my other two shell holders and cartridges everything checks out normal. So I'm going to take bills advice and try the oring and get some better shell holders.

I think I found the reason for what's happening. Hopefully I'm not wrong, because if I am, I have absolutely 0 idea. Haha!

I never understood the shell holder affecting how the case was sized. The case can only fit in the die 1 way. If the shell holder isn't square to the die, I always assumed the case would still fit the die. Maybe it deforms the case head rim a few thou, I don't know.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I found Wilson bushings to be much better than Redding. Size numbers actually match the diameter of the hole better.

Same here Bill. I also found rcbs and Sac to be good.

 

[TIMO]

I never understood the shell holder affecting how the case was sized. The case can only fit in the die 1 way. If the shell holder isn't square to the die, I always assumed the case would still fit the die. Maybe it deforms the case head rim a few thou, I don't know.

Quality of machining based on the manufacturer. Like most things, +/- tolerances not just how the cartridge base/rim fits into the shell holder but also how the shell holder fits in the ram. I have a specific shell holder that stays with a specific set of dies and press. I load for two 30BRs and a 30BRS.

Tim

 

[AlNyhus]

Before getting too far off the tracks, get a rubber 'o' ring and place it between the die lock ring and the press. Readjust the die (naturally) so the 'o' ring is lightly loaded enough to give the die a bit of flex but still stay adjusted. I make a Sharpie mark on the lock ring that matches a mark on the press....you can hit the die setting every time it goes in the press.

The bushing cavity can also be off axis in the die. The bushing will sound loose but when the neck goes through the bushing, it can bind and cock the neck slightly. Another thing to try is wrapping a single wrap of Scotch tape around the bushing and see how the run out is that way. Could be better or worse.

FWIW, I like to keep the run out to no more than .0015 total when the bullet is seated. But I haven't noticed any 'on target' issues with up to .003, either.

Respectfully, if you're still not using wind flags...chasing run out is way down the list of things you can sort out 'on target'.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[rlporter507]

redding die, redding bushing, .001-.003 runout.
same die not moved, changed to SAC bushing .001 runout. they do what they say, reduces runout in every die they tested. Im running an o-ring around the shell holder, and a o-ring under the die lock ring. when setting up the die, run the case into the die as you screw it down. never heard of the o-ring under the bushing, i crank the center part down until it touches, then back off an 1/8 turn to let it float.
run out wont be less than the case wall variation.
Im not running a expander ball, .001 or less is good enough for me in gas gun.

 

[Kevin1990]

Before getting too far off the tracks, get a rubber 'o' ring and place it between the die lock ring and the press. Readjust the die (naturally) so the 'o' ring is lightly loaded enough to give the die a bit of flex but still stay adjusted. I make a Sharpie mark on the lock ring that matches a mark on the press....you can hit the die setting every time it goes in the press.

The bushing cavity can also be off axis in the die. The bushing will sound loose but when the neck goes through the bushing, it can bind and cock the neck slightly. Another thing to try is wrapping a single wrap of Scotch tape around the bushing and see how the run out is that way. Could be better or worse.

FWIW, I like to keep the run out to no more than .0015 total when the bullet is seated. But I haven't noticed any 'on target' issues with up to .003, either.

Respectfully, if you're still not using wind flags...chasing run out is way down the list of things you can sort out 'on target'.

Good shootin' -Al

Just ordered a bag of various O-rings, a new shell holder and I'm going to do what you say here before I go any further and see if that does it before I spend $40 on a SAC bushing. Or comp shell holders etc. I'll also try the scotch tape.

The shell holder almost looks like it's making contact more on one side, and it measures larger on one side that the other. But again, we shall see.

Good memory! I went to order some from Graham wind flags and they are all out of stock, so I made some myself for the time being.

 

[rlporter507]

ace or HD
7/8 Id, 1" OD for die
3/4 ID 7/8 OD for shell holder

 

[Kevin1990]

ace or HD
7/8 Id, 1" OD for die
3/4 ID 7/8 OD for shell holder

Thank you, Huge help!

 

[Kevin1990]

One other thought. If all else fails. (I'm jumping way ahead of myself) but maybe a .325 bushing and then open it up with a mandrel. Seems like I'd be working the brass alot more though.

 

[TIMO]

Keep us updated.
Tim