Run out

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

I would think concentricity of the barrel/chamber/action would be more important the round itself given everything that is acting upon the round. That's a lot of variables for an average Joe to test.

 

[jackieschmidt]

A fine built custom hunting rifle assembled by a competent craftsman should be chambered with the same care and attention to detail as any rifle built for Competitive use.

The difference might be in throat lengths in order to use bullets more dedicated more to terminal ballistics that bullet flight performance, but aside from that, the quality should be equal.

 

[drop_point]

A fine built custom hunting rifle assembled by a competent craftsman should be chambered with the same care and attention to detail as any rifle built for Competitive use.

The difference might be in throat lengths in order to use bullets more dedicated more to terminal ballistics that bullet flight performance, but aside from that, the quality should be equal.

I agree 100%, and never said otherwise, but somebody tried to put words in my mouth.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Can't remember for sure but wasn't it Eric Cortina who made some rounds crooked on purpose and shot them and made no difference.
Don't remember by how much.

He and Brian Litz both said in separate podcasts that they have shot rounds with as much as .015" runout with no noticable affect on accuracy even at 1000 yards, but emphasized to always try to attain the least amount of run out possible..

 

[L.Sherm]

He and Brian Litz both said in separate podcasts that they have shot rounds with as much as .015" runout with no noticable affect on accuracy even at 1000 yards, but emphasized to always try to attain the least amount of run out possible..

Oh I agree im not gonna intentionally do it but I'm not gonna obsess over it either, in my opinion theres more to gain in other reloading practices than if your ammo is .003 or .007 TIR

 

[L.Sherm]

I agree 100%, and never said otherwise, but somebody tried to put words in my mouth.

I never put words in your mouth " match" and Generic mean different things to different people

 

[jelenko]

Depending on the chamber job but there should only be a few thou clearance in the throat so bullet can be off quite a bit and still be corrected when chambering the round.
Yrmv of course.

Does this mean the tests that show there is little difference in accuracy between < 1 and >5 runout really aren't testing runout?

 

[drop_point]

I never put words in your mouth " match" and Generic mean different things to different people

Sure seemed like it...

 

[L.Sherm]

Does this mean the tests that show there is little difference in accuracy between < 1 and >5 runout really aren't testing runout?

I haven't tested TIR on a round in probably 7 or 8 years since I did and I came to the conclusion that it really made no difference to me on target, but testing for yourself it really isn't any different testing that people should be doing like other things. I just found other things give me more bang for my buck to speak.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

We got a post a few days back that a guy's rail gun couldn't see the
difference on the target with .003" runout.

This kinda told me not to make a career out of chasing runout.

A. Weldy

 

[jackieschmidt]

We got a post a few days back that a guy's rail gun couldn't see the
difference on the target with .003" runout.

This kinda told me not to make a career out of chasing runout.

A. Weldy

I probably made that post, but rest assured, this topic has been hashed out for many decades, and some very proficient shooters have done various test with the same results.

However, I will add that if a shooter’s loading equipment is consistently producing loaded rounds with more than .005 total runout, that shooter needs to critique his or her set up to ascertain why.

We are blessed with some of the finest equipment and procedures to produce top quality hand loaded rounds. The old full length die that drags a case back across a sizing button combined with a bullet seating die that has no means to align the case perfectly with the bullet before the actual seating force is applied is not going to be your best option.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If the chamber is concentric to the bore(shapes sharing the same center) how does a few thousandth run out matter? And run out would be half the neck clearance after chambering?

 

[Krogen]

Engineers (guilty!) tend to obsess over variables we can measure. Unmeasurable variables, we ignore. Perhaps to our detriment, but if it can't be observed, analyzed or controlled, it's disregarded. I submit cartridge runout falls in the prior bucket. Since we can measure it, there can be the urge to obsess and control it - whether it's important or not.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Engineers (guilty!) tend to obsess over variables we can measure. Unmeasurable variables, we ignore. Perhaps to our detriment, but if it can't be observed, analyzed or controlled, it's disregarded. I submit cartridge runout falls in the prior bucket. Since we can measure it, there can be the urge to obsess and control it - whether it's important or not.

I agree. And its not a bad thing. A straight round is not hurting anything. No different that consistent seating force is not hurting. But we can all measure the most important thing, the target. The measurements at the loading bench are great, but only if they correlate to the target measurements. Many times they do not.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Engineers (guilty!) tend to obsess over variables we can measure. Unmeasurable variables, we ignore. Perhaps to our detriment, but if it can't be observed, analyzed or controlled, it's disregarded. I submit cartridge runout falls in the prior bucket. Since we can measure it, there can be the urge to obsess and control it - whether it's important or not.

^^^^^^^^
Not only engineers.

 

[markm87]

i think this is like ES at 100 yards. its to close to tell anything (ha ha) anyway it would be interesting to shoot those at 600 and see if there is a difference.

That's true. The High Power range I shot these at maxes out at 500m, and always has terrible wind conditions.

The spot we shoot now would be better if I ever got the chance.

 

[Doug Casner]

Im an amateur dont know much but it looks to me like the the angle the point of the bullet in the bore would make a difference at long range. Maybe not at a 100 but its just gonna be more of an angle the further you go. Doug

 

[jelenko]

Whether it's an issue for the shooter depends on the level of accuracy they need - e.g., sling shooter vs benchrest.

 

[Steve Donlon]

runout is just one of many variables we have to deal with. If one or two variables are out of alignment a little it might not matter, but at some point they do. I try to get them all in line the best way I can. I don' jam my bullets, but I know it can be more accurate. I'm glad I don't compete because I would stay up at night thinking about it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Engineers (guilty!) tend to obsess over variables we can measure. Unmeasurable variables, we ignore. Perhaps to our detriment, but if it can't be observed, analyzed or controlled, it's disregarded. I submit cartridge runout falls in the prior bucket. Since we can measure it, there can be the urge to obsess and control it - whether it's important or not.

I’m a little confused. I too have some engineering background. I thought we identified variables and tried to isolate and measure their impact. Being able to actually measure that variable was always secondary. Hmm.