run out question

[BoydAllen]

It is not a matter of setup. but rather a modification. A friend, who builds rifles and has a lathe and mill, has modified dies to produce a better centering of the case in the two types of seaters that I mentioned, by letting the case do the pushing (of the sleeve up into the die body), instead of the shell holder, he gets better concentricity. He tells me that he takes about a tenth of an inch off of the bottom of the sleeve to achieve this. I am not saying that this is necessary, just that he has done it, and improved his loaded round concentricity. In any case, I would make sure that I had a problem before fixing anything.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Makes perfect sense now, If that is happening then it kinda defeats the purpose of the sleeve guiding the case? I will be sure to check to see if my case makes contact before the holder!

 

[Area Man]

Mild Bill:

Thanks for starting this thread, and I've been getting some good hints from the replies.

I am also chasing better accuracy with a .243. Mine is a Rem VLS with a Shilen barrel and I'm mostly in the 0.5 to 1 in. neighborhood. I'm still looking for its favorite loads, and that has been difficult with the limited availabilty of powders and bullets. In 2013, I haven't been able to shoot what I want, I shoot what I can get.

I scored 2 pounds of Varget and thought one hole groups were on the way. Not so. I've been doing better with Accurate 4350 and Berger 62 gr bullets.

I've been doing a bunch of run-out measuring and have not really been able to draw any conclusions yet. I have found how to make a lot of run-out (my RCBS FL die) and how to make less (Redding bushing die). I quit measuring bullet run-out because I found that if i measured neck run-out before seating the bullet it would be reflected in bullet run-out after seating the bullet. Maybe I'll go back to it when I get the neck run-out all figured out.

 

[BoydAllen]

If you want to play with some new toys, try a collet die and a body die, along with a Wilson seater. That should help your run out a bit, then you can learn to anneal cases PROPERLY and make your bullet seating force more uniform. Are you using anything to look at what the wind is doing between you and the target? What is your trigger pull?

 

[Area Man]

If you want to play with some new toys, try a collet die and a body die, along with a Wilson seater. That should help your run out a bit, then you can learn to anneal cases PROPERLY and make your bullet seating force more uniform. Are you using anything to look at what the wind is doing between you and the target? What is your trigger pull?

In my case, I don't think I've maxed out the capabilities of the toys I already have. I made some wind flags and am working on learning to use them. I have found out that there is a lot more going on between the muzzle and target than I ever thought, but I haven't been able to yet translate it to better groups.

I installed a Timney trigger and it's at about a pound.

Do you have to forever do all this verification stuff for every post here?

 

[Old Navy]

One little improvement that has made a noticeable difference in the concentricity of rounds that were made with either Redding Competition, and Forester seaters is to shorten the sliding sleeve so that it is raised by the case and does not make contact with the shell holder when a case is in place.

Boyd, I had to read this a couple times because I knew my case was pushing the sleeve up. Then it dawned on me that I am seating bullets in BRX cases with a Redding 6BR seater. The run out on my BRX rounds is definiately less than the 6BR rounds were. Interesting post. Thanks. Later! Frank

 

[MildBill]

If you want to play with some new toys, try a collet die and a body die, along with a Wilson seater. That should help your run out a bit, then you can learn to anneal cases PROPERLY and make your bullet seating force more uniform. Are you using anything to look at what the wind is doing between you and the target? What is your trigger pull?

trigger is 2.5 pounds.

I have some flags for evaluating wind.

several of the days I have been working on groups it has been at a time of the day in my little sheltered valley that there is no wind. still getting inconsistent groups.

 

[BoydAllen]

I know that this is going over the same thing again, but I would never go through the load search that you have without making sure that the bedding was perfect, and that the action screws were tightened to an appropriate tension. This has been a long thread, and I do not review the entire thing before I post again. We have gone over the issues relating to concentricity. There are a number of other considerations involved in consistency of grouping, like the bags that you are using, and even where on the forend the rifle is supported. There is also how you hold the rifle. I see a lot of mistakes with these things every time that I go to the range, and in several cases, when the shooter wanted to try some new things, have been able to cut his groups in half or better by changing the way that he was doing some things. Bottom line, there is more to accuracy than the loads, and you can't fix those things by working on the loads.

 

[MildBill]

Well...

based on the components put into this rifle and time spent truing everything up when the gunsmith built it, it should easily be the most consistent and accurate rifle I own.

So far it is the least consistent and accurate rifle I own.

 

[jlow]

If you want to play with some new toys, try a collet die and a body die, along with a Wilson seater. That should help your run out a bit, then you can learn to anneal cases PROPERLY and make your bullet seating force more uniform. Are you using anything to look at what the wind is doing between you and the target? What is your trigger pull?

It’s good advice. I have checked case run out before and after doing the necks with a Lee collet die and have seen some (but not all) cases with reduced run out. I also switch from a Forster Ultra Micrometer seater to a Wilson inline seater and have found reduced runout.